A380 possibly put to pasture?

[boeingboy]

Interesting comments from Airbus. If it turns out to be true though - it wouldn't surprise me.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 19512.html

"Chief financial officer Harald Wilhelm started the speculation frenzy when reports emerged that he had told investors Airbus might have to discontinue the plane unless it can invest in improvements to make it more attractive to customers. Although analysts and rivals have suggested it for some time, it was the first time the manufacturer had talked publicly about the humiliating possibility.

He said the A380 manufacturing programme would break even next year but not into 2018 without new engine types. That decision on the engine has to be made soon, because it would normally take about four years – and $2bn – to develop.

Sales of the A380 have been sluggish because of a limit to the number of routes where a 500-seater is needed. No airline has ordered A380s at all this year, while in July, the Japanese carrier Skymark Airlines cancelled the six it had ordered."

[razorblade]

Quite the opposite. http://www.ausbt.com.au/airbus-confirms ... 80-stretch

[digits_]

Quite the opposite. http://www.ausbt.com.au/airbus-confirms ... 80-stretch

"one day", doesn't sound like they are very serious about it. It also sounds like they want to protect their flagship at all costs, which is not a very healthy strategy for a company. A little bit spooky....

But mighty cool if they do end up building it of course !

[schnitzel2k3]

"We have to get more customers, and convince them there is much more upside than downside to the A380."

Smells of desperation...

I always liked the '47 more.

S.

[davecessna]

The 777 is what's been killing them for years in the heavy category.

[complexintentions]

Quite the opposite. http://www.ausbt.com.au/airbus-confirms ... 80-stretch

They'll have to get more than one airline buying the current one for that to be a realistic possibility. I think the European taxpayers are a little too maxed on the credit cards to subsidize another gamble.

[thenoflyzone]

4 holers are a thing of the past.

Airbus will never be able to make the A380 program profitable. Period !

If Amedeo cancels its order for 20 whalejets, I give it until 2017-2018. After that, it's all over. I can see Airbus talking to existing A380 customers about switching orders. The 747-8i, with a bit of luck, might outlast the A380 production line.

[bmc]

The 777 is what's been killing them for years in the heavy category.

Absolutely right.

But, the A380 has been the perfect airplane for the few slot constrained, high volume long haul markets. It has low seat cost, enabling airlines to blend a mix of pricing from a number of markets. LHR to/from certain Asian markets are perfect for the airplane. AF does well between CDG and YUL capitalizing on their strong hub in Paris.

It may be a money maker for Airbus, but for operators using them on the right market, there's nothing else. I remember QF used to have two B747's leaving LHR every night for SYD that departed with 45 minutes of each other. This was replaced by the A380.

But as quoted above, the B 777-300 has won out over the B747-400. It has been the winner here in a broader sense.

[boeingboy]

The second article is interesting.

If anything though - it comes out a day after the first and seems to be trying to salvage a bad situation. When the CFO of a company comes out and says we may shut this thing down as we are bleeding money, it's a pretty bad situation. The stock then takes a nosedive and the CEO comes and says - don't worry - we are making it bigger and better!

Even if they made a NEO - what about the 140 almost new originals? No one would take them, Either Emirates or the lease company would take a bath having to scrap them. Airbus really only has 2 or 3 customers for the plane (I don't consider 5 planes in a fleet a customer) The thing is just too big and a money looser for Airbus. Boeing was right when they said there was no market.

[boeingboy]

Absolutely right.

But, the A380 has been the perfect airplane for the few slot constrained, high volume long haul markets. It has low seat cost, enabling airlines to blend a mix of pricing from a number of markets. LHR to/from certain Asian markets are perfect for the airplane. AF does well between CDG and YUL capitalizing on their strong hub in Paris.

It may be a money maker for Airbus, but for operators using them on the right market, there's nothing else. I remember QF used to have two B747's leaving LHR every night for SYD that departed with 45 minutes of each other. This was replaced by the A380.

But as quoted above, the B 777-300 has won out over the B747-400. It has been the winner here in a broader sense

That's true - but each airline using a few slot constricted markets does not equal a good project such as the 380. If it wasn't for the Arabs and their 20 cent a gallon fuel - the project would have been a disaster for Airbus. Can you imagine if Emirates only ordered 20? If Airbus knew then what they know now - I think the sticker price would have been higher, and then how many would they sell?

There comes a point where price is just to high to develop an aircraft just so you can move 1 plane instead of 2 to an airport, when operator would only need 3 or 4 in their fleet.

[bmc]

I think given the traffic projections, the 380 appealed to a number of operators. BA, AF, SQ, QF all operate them now. It makes sense to interview Tim Clark as the largest operator of them. It would be interesting to hear the views of the other operators in terms of operating cost and desire for a new efficient model.

While Gulf carriers may (or may not as they claim) get a price advantage in the gulf, they tank up outside of the Gulf as many times.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

The 747 is also essentially dead. There are many parked -400s and most 747-800 orders are for the cargo version (Airbus delayed the delivery of A-380Fs UFN)

[complexintentions]

Agree with Gilles. It isn't about A380 versus B747, it's about four engines versus two.

The tired old myth of cheap jet fuel for Arab airlines persists, I see. Setting aside that nonsense for a second, Emirates buying so many A380's has nothing to do with the price of fuel. It has more to do with having an ownership stake in EADS. But I'm too tired tonight to try and correct ignorance once again.

I will say that it does amuse me to see good old Sir Tim frothing at the mouth claiming that other airlines' inability to make money with the 380 is down to not marketing it properly. lol He better hope he knows something that no one else in the industry does. At least $60 oil buys him some time.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Emirates buying so many A380's has nothing to do with the price of fuel. It has more to do with having an ownership stake in EADS.

That, and also having enough leverage for obtaining the required landing slots from those otherwise recalcitrant Europeans......

[Genetk44]

It was pointed out on another forum that airlines like the fact they can, very often offload aircraft to 2nd tier airlines....what 2nd tier airline will want used 380s?????

[bmc]

It was pointed out on another forum that airlines like the fact they can, very often offload aircraft to 2nd tier airlines....what 2nd tier airline will want used 380s?????

It wouldn't surprise me to see Air Berlin snap one up at some point. Plus, if they do stop production and traffic demand increase, particular let between slot constrained airports, it might be a valuable airplane.

The important thing to remember is it's Airbus that isn't making money with the airplane, not the airlines. But, it will always be a market specific machine, and for those markets, it's probably the best machine to satisfy demand. The seat cost on that thing is low, given the number of seats.

[Johnny#5]

I heard First Air is getting one....imagine how much KFC would fit in one of those things!

[pelmet]

I heard First Air is getting one....imagine how much KFC would fit in one of those things!

Strip it out and use it for pop charters. It might just be able to keep up.

[GyvAir]

How many inches of ice on the lake do you need to support an a380?

[bmc]

The three posts above this one make the most sense"

[davecessna]

The 777 is what's been killing them for years in the heavy category.

Absolutely right.

But, the A380 has been the perfect airplane for the few slot constrained, high volume long haul markets. It has low seat cost, enabling airlines to blend a mix of pricing from a number of markets. LHR to/from certain Asian markets are perfect for the airplane. AF does well between CDG and YUL capitalizing on their strong hub in Paris.

It may be a money maker for Airbus, but for operators using them on the right market, there's nothing else. I remember QF used to have two B747's leaving LHR every night for SYD that departed with 45 minutes of each other. This was replaced by the A380.

But as quoted above, the B 777-300 has won out over the B747-400. It has been the winner here in a broader sense.

They pulled the 380 off the Montreal/Paris route. They went back to the 747/A330 combo.

[cgzro]

Id have thought the 380 would be good in the asian markets due to the almost 100% load factors.
ive flown on Singapore Airlines A380s.. nice plane, more comfortable in coach then a 747... Especially on the lower deck where the window seats have flat walls which give you more room.

Upper deck first on a 747 is still pretty cool though.. But I guess the private cabines on the 380 cant be beat but ill never see one.

[ScudRunner]

Gotta hand it to Boeing for doing their homework on the jumbo market before sinking billions into a small niche.