Rudder pedals

[Gear Jerker]

It never occurred to me that this was a question, as I had only been taught one thing my whole career, and hadn't talked to anybody who thought differently until recently.

Takeoff/landing, heels on the floor, or heels on the rudder toes on the brakes?

Pros:

Heel/Toe - Able to begin brake application with minimal delay in the event of a rejected takeoff, or some squirrelly short field landing scenario
Toe (Well, balls of the feet) - No inadvertent brake application on takeoff/landing. Arguably more precise control, as you are using smaller muscles.

Cons:

Heel/Toe - The worst case; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Loko ... r_disaster
Toe - All I can think of, is a fraction of a second delay from recognition of the need to apply brakes, to physically sliding your feet a few inches further up the pedals.

My bias on this one is pretty clear..

[crazyaviator]

If the pedals will accomodate full L/R movement without your toes being forced to operate the brakes, I believe this is the best way ( heels on pedals, toes over but not pushing brakes) IF the geometry of the pedals or person does not allow that, then heel on floor or in the air and upper foot on pedals leaving the brakes to be applied when you slide up the foot .. NEVER have feet on the floor !! Only tricycle pilots with dead feet allowed to do that BTW, one of the most irritating things for me in the right seat is to see the A/C Waggle back and forth like a drunken sea-lion (yaw) and the pilots feet flat on the floor,,never dampening the oscillation BECAUSE, he/she never really used their feet in the first place.

[Rockie]

Heels off the floor and the balls of your feet in place to apply maximum brake (all the way to the floor) the instant you decide to reject a takeoff. That way your feet are in place to keep the airplane straight while applying the brakes in the event of an engine failure, plus in a max effort reject with a balanced field the time you take screwing around because your feet weren't in the right place could make the difference between going off the end or not.

Takeoff performance is calculated very carefully and there is very little margin for error.

[ahramin]

When I look at the rudder pedals, I notice that they are roughly in the shape of a foot. That's for a reason. Feet on the pedals. If you need to have your heels on the floor in order to get precise enough control to fly the airplane, practice some more.

Think of a situation where you are running out of rudder authority and gradually get to full pedal deflection ... then what? Try to keep full pressure on the pedal while shifting your foot up the pedal and then applying brakes? With your leg extended? Feet on the pedals, that's what they are there for.

[switchflicker]

One of my co-horts didn't see the need to put his feet on the rudder pedals, so in the sim, during the approach the stall practice, when the nose was nice and high, I gave a rudder a quick boot. The noise from the left seat was worth twice the price of admission as we were pointed toward mother earth in a small flash.

[Gear Jerker]

To clarify, I'm not advocating for taking a break from operating rudder pedals to ensure coordinated flight and to act as a yaw damper for my passengers. In fact, the opposite is true. I'm also one who is pissed off when I see pilots not using their feet at all times.

Being 6'3 with size 13 feet, let's just say that it will take a commitment to change a 10 year habit in terms of how I position my feet.

Definitely eye opening. I had never heard of anybody doing it this way until recently.

[tbaylx]

The issue with heels on the floor and only the ball of the foot manipulating the pedal is that its' difficult to have pressure on the rudder already such as in a crosswind landing, then shift your feet up the pedal to apply braking while maintaining crosswind inputs/lateral control. It can be done, but its not as smooth or as effective as already having feet in position.

I flew almost 10K hours with heels on the floor before I forced myself to switch. Its uncomfortable at first, but becomes natural with time.

[oldtimer]

Where do you put your feet in an airplane like the Luscombe that has padded rudder pedals and heel brakes.
Many trainers nowadays try to teach younger pilots to keep their heels on the floor to disuade them from steering the airplane on take-off and landing with brakes rather than just rudder. I think.

[GRK2]

I agree with Rockie,

One more thing, if your ride has auto brakes, the RTO position should handle the braking if you have to reject. But...(big but though) you'd better have your feet on the brakes in a hurry if it fails or disconnects. (If you lose thrust on one side with little forward ground speed in a bigger jet, you'd be in the weeds in a flash if you were only toes on...)

[complexintentions]

Well, in some large jets there are systems to automatically help out in in that situation (i.e. TAC: Thust Asymmetry Compensation) but certainly no excuse for poor technique. In a catastrophic engine failure the TAC may fail too, pretty standard in training anyway for it to never work.

But it isn't limited to big jets, a small Lear is far more squirrelly on a V1 cut than a transport category jet. A LR35 with full tip tanks will get your attention in a hurry.

Get good habits early, always helps. The rudder pedals aren't there just to rest your feet on, use them.

[NAT2]

This thread is exactly what you're getting at, and you can see the jury was still out.

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... us#p545742

[PilotDAR]

I advocate (and mentor) pedal use as required at all times, but heels on the floor unless there is an immediate intention to apply the brakes. All toe brake equipped aircraft I have flown have the brakes high enough on the pedals that they cannot be reached with heels on the floor on purpose! I don't drive with my foot on the brake pedal all the time because there is a slim chance I could need to stop. I do "guard" or apply the brake as circumstances dictate.

I've never had a problem that way....

[KAG]

I have my feet on the pedals, as Rockie described. Many guys have questioned it over the years but it just works for me. I find it harder to transition from my heels on the floor to applying breaks. I know I'm in the minority, but 12,000 hours and no issues I must be doing somthing right.

[sstaurus]

Relevant to the discussion, foot position was found to be factor.

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 4c0016.asp

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I use heels on the floor...and no aileron input for takeoff, landing roll or taxi...I am sure that will raise some discussion!

[No Quarter]

So KAG, you're the kind of guy that likes to keep your feet on the pedals when I'm taking off? NOTHING pisses me off more. There is only ONE PF.

[jspitfire]

I'm heels on the floor 95 % of the time. If I'm doing a short field landing or in a strong crosswind, then my full foot is on the pedals prior to landing. But otherwise I'm heels on the floor. I've had a main tire roll off the rim on touchdown in the Caravan and had no problem moving my foot up to the brake and keeping it straight on the runway.

[sstaurus]

So KAG, you're the kind of guy that likes to keep your feet on the pedals when I'm taking off? NOTHING pisses me off more. There is only ONE PF.

I feel as captain, one should be following with their feet on the pedals. If anything goes wrong it's their butt on the line after all so why shouldn't they be ready to assist if the FO messes up.

[Rockie]

So KAG, you're the kind of guy that likes to keep your feet on the pedals when I'm taking off? NOTHING pisses me off more. There is only ONE PF.

I feel as captain, one should be following with their feet on the pedals. If anything goes wrong it's their butt on the line after all so why shouldn't they be ready to assist if the FO messes up.

In airline flying the captain performs the rejected takeoff regardless who is PF, and therefore has his/her hands on the thrust levers until V1 and feet on the rudders/brakes. Heels off the floor ready to immediately apply maximum braking while keeping the aircraft on the centre line with the rudders, but keeping the presence light to remain as invisible to the FO's inputs as possible.

[KAG]

So KAG, you're the kind of guy that likes to keep your feet on the pedals when I'm taking off? NOTHING pisses me off more. There is only ONE PF.

Did I say I did that? No, I didn't, and nor do I. And I don't need the lesson on ONE PF. Judging from that comment you strike me as the kind of guy who tries to run the plane from the right seat. Nothing pisses me off more.

[AirFrame]

In the Cessna 140, the geometry was such that if I had my foot fully on the pedal, I couldn't apply full rudder without adding brake as well... My feet just don't flex that far. So takeoffs were done with heels down, and balls of the foot on the base of the pedal. Landings were done with feet higher, but still not fully on the pedal until needed. I didn't find this to be an issue in the Cessna 150.

[leftoftrack]

So KAG, you're the kind of guy that likes to keep your feet on the pedals when I'm taking off? NOTHING pisses me off more. There is only ONE PF.

Did I say I did that? No, I didn't, and nor do I. And I don't need the lesson on ONE PF. Judging from that comment you strike me as the kind of guy who tries to run the plane from the right seat. Nothing pisses me off more.

do you have 4 bars KAG?

[KAG]

Yes, not that that matters much. In terms of rudders I've only ever flown with a handful of pilots who rode the rudders while I was flying (not a fan of that). Also as I've said im the minority of pilots who lift their feet off the floor.
Right from flight school I did this, my instructor mentioned it to me but said If it worked he didn't care. It came up again during my instructor rating, my class 1 insisted I keep my feet on the floor. I actually had a crosswind get squirrely when I tried to shift my feet up to apply brakes. I know some would argue but it works for me. It worked fine in the king airs, and it works well in the 737. Maybe it wouldn't in a 185 on wheels, but I don't know as I've never flown one.

[Nark]

So what you're saying KAG, is that different airplanes require different techniques to fly?

Hmmmmm.

[Maynard]

So what you're saying KAG, is that different airplanes require different techniques to fly?

Hmmmmm.

That simply cannot be possible!! How dare we use different techniques and/or common sense when controlling an airplane!! (Yes I keep my feet on the pedals, its not hard to control the rudder with heels. And I guess I'm just lucky that I haven't skidded a tire yet!*)

*I have on a wet runway locked up a wheel, but unrelated to my foot position