Keystone

[CGSCZ]

Haven't heard any Keystone flights on the radio lately...anyone know what's going on?

Perhaps not too busy with lodges and/or charters around this time of the season?

Cheers

[esp803]

I sincerely hope it's due to them having their OC being revoked. I doubt it, but I can hope.

[AWOS]

Yeah. Their OC has been pulled for about a week now.

[digits_]

Yeah. Their OC has been pulled for about a week now.

What is the official reason ? Has it been pulled or did they "voluntarily" hand it in ?

[AWOS]

Yeah. Their OC has been pulled for about a week now.

What is the official reason ? Has it been pulled or did they "voluntarily" hand it in ?

Not sure. I found out when some of the employees there contacted me for employment info, so that could say something right there...

I imagine the reason and/or the fate of Keystone will come out within the coming days.

[Gear Jerker]

Feel bad for some of the great people there who are just trying to make it in this industry. Emphasis on employees, not employer.

[upintheair_]

I heard they sold the King Airs and OC is gone and company shut down permanently.

[trey kule]

Feel bad for some of the great people there who are just trying to make it in this industry. Emphasis on employees, not employer.

Don't feel bad. Those "great people" who are willing to do anything and fly and join a scumbag gang are as much of a problem as any dodgey operator. The emphasis should be on both.

[Jean-Pierre]

So was the crash ESSO fault or not? Or is this unrelated?

[cdnpilot77]

Feel bad for some of the great people there who are just trying to make it in this industry. Emphasis on employees, not employer.

Don't feel bad. Those "great people" who are willing to do anything and fly and join a scumbag gang are as much of a problem as any dodgey operator. The emphasis should be on both.

Trey, this is one of the very few things that I outright agree with you on. Hope the door hit them in ass on the way out.

[switchflicker]

It's easy to slam the people who 'are willing to do anything and fly and join a scumbag gang' but let's not forget that when these great people were hired, that was the only job they had. Sure, things get out of hand and you do things you're kinda sure are not the right things to do, but for all you know, this is as good as it gets. It's easy to say they should just refuse to fly. Walk out the door and hope the door doesn't hit you on the way, but walk to what? I'm quite aware that there are better operators and worse ones, but are they hiring? Do you want to do another stint on the ramp or the dock. The other thing that those employees must be aware of is when you have this particular operator as your most recent employer, you are likely viewed poorly. Now if the OC has indeed been suspended, the employees have no choice but to hit the bricks. That's a good thing, but never the less painful, and not in the plan (or the budget). Let's take it easy on the poor guy who may not now have the bucks to pay the bills.

[single_swine_herder]

The other part of the so-called "scumbag employees" is that is the only type of environment they know, therefore it is normal.

Its often a case of "you don't know what you don't know" until much later.

That's how it was in my early days of float flying on the BC coast ........ but then, everybody was doing the same thing and it was considered "ops normal" to fly at 10 feet off the water in zero forward vis and maybe 200 feet out the side window over water conditions which would have been unlikely to survive a landing.

It wasn't until later that I realized how stupid that was because that was what a fella saw on a daily basis...... and it was normal ..... stupid .... but normal.

[GyvAir]

Rarely do people work in operations like that entirely by choice. It’s not uncommon to take a job on short notice without having time to do much research into what sort of situation they are getting into. Once there, for a whole host of reasons, it’s easier said than done to just up and leave. Switching jobs and moving isn’t cheap, usually isn’t quick and almost always looks more stressful than just continuing to show up for work, do your best under the conditions and collect the paycheck you can fairly well count on at the end of the week. Until of course, one’s personal situation improves to the point where moving on is a more viable option, or the conditions truly become unbearable.

[cdnpilot77]

I don't buy it. There is enough information accessible in a matter of minutes on a smartphone with a 2 or 3 word Google search that would raise the red flag!

[esp803]

Tough crowd tonight.

I know several places that blacklist former employees of this operation, I also know a few people who did quite well after keystone. My thoughts are that I'd rather be flipping buggers than a statistic related to negligence or worse.

E

[ei ei owe]

Tough crowd tonight.

I know several places that blacklist former employees of this operation, I also know a few people who did quite well after keystone. My thoughts are that I'd rather be flipping buggers than a statistic related to negligence or worse.

E

Would that lead to you being charged of buggery?
Sorry.....

[Kzanol]

If their OC was pulled, it's a good thing. Hope that spreads to some of the similar operators in that area.

[digits_]

If their OC was pulled, it's a good thing. Hope that spreads to some of the similar operators in that area.

Such as ?

[trey kule]

gang' but let's not forget that when these great people were hired, that was the only job they had.

Well then that is a good thing. Lucky someone did not offer them a job as a drug mule or bank robber.
This way they only killed a few people and wrecked a few airplanes. A much better first choice.

[DanWEC]

The idea that someone is somehow enslaved and shackled anywhere as a pilot is total bullshit. You make your own choices.
The Syrian refugee who is exploited in a dangerous meat processing plant to simply feed his family is in a tough spot. A pilot who is worried about finding another job? Talk about first f***ing world problems! Let's have some perspective.
You make your own choices- conscientiously, hopefully- and deal with the consequences. It's called being an adult.
I have worked for two crappy operators in aviation and left both in short order, and both without another job lined up. Kudos to anyone who left Keystone for better operators, or simply quit out of self respect.
I think we often forget how fortunate we are to live in this corner of the world, with so much opportunity available to cultivate.

DC

[single_swine_herder]

Such as the legendary one that used to operate a somewhat large company in YTH, lost their AOC that has moved south after being in Ontario Region for a while.

[Gear Jerker]

I wish some of you would get off your high horses. Did you all have some master plan for your career, which you followed to a T from day one, without making any mistakes, or having any challenges along the way? I happen to know some of these recently unemployed great people, and I can tell you with certainty that they would excel in any company, but the way of the world is: right place at the right time, and if you don't meet the requirements, you don't get the job. Nobody works for these companies as a plan A.

I recently met someone who got hired at Air Canada at age 19 with 1000hrs, back in the day. Wouldn't that be great!? Some people get lucky early on, while most just try their damnedest to get on with a good company, but at some point, you need to get your ass in the air. And when you do, be prepared to say no and stand your ground if necessary.

I have yet to meet anyone with thousands of hours who is established and comfortable in their career who doesn't have stories from early on where they've done things that they knew at the time were wrong, or they weren't comfortable with, scared themselves half to death, and learned from as a result - namely to give less f***s about consequences, if they made a decision that erred on the side of safety.

In a perfect world nobody would work for Keystone, Skycare, Wapiti, etc. and they would go out of business within weeks, but in reality there will continue to be good people trying to make it in a very tough industry that elect to grin and bear it for a while, like we all have in some form or another. Would you divorce your wife/husband because you found out they once dated an asshole?

[trey kule]

Nobody works for these companies as a plan A.

Nobody should work for these companies at all. Rationalize it however you want, but if you stay more than a week or two when you find out what type of a company they are you are part of the problem.
And just like these companies should not be in business, I dont think the pilots that worked for them, and allowed them to stay in business until the accidents happened should be in aviation either.
The poor desparate me , what was I to do, excuse falls on deaf ears here.

Btw...they are not "good" people who will support sleazy companies by flying for them...dont care how you spin it.


The owners of these companies are not busting minimums, overunning runways, flying without proper fuel,overweight. Or crashing and killing people. Their pilots are. So dont give me the poor little victim pilot excuses. They are gang members carrying out their orders.

In the past we have bounced people to the top of the list because their resumes showed they worked for one of these sleazeball outfits just long enough to realize what was going on...I respect that, and I think most of the old guys in the industry who hire do as well.

And so endth my rant..

[iamnomaverick]

Yup. When you see a man down you kick him in the nuts, don't help him up eh?! You guys are true gentlemen.

I happen to be friends with many of these folks @ Keystone and I am proud to call them friends. I am sure some of the many non-jaded people in the industry will take them on.

[AWOS]

I heard they sold the King Airs and OC is gone and company shut down permanently.

I heard this too, along with the 99. I've seen what kind of shape some of those machines are in - they belong in a Walmart bargain bin.