I've read the threads that come up through the search function, and the school's website, but still have a bunch of questions. I would appreciate the input and indulgence of current student and recent grads, regarding the scheduling, expenses, and quality of instruction at Confed.
1. The general sense I've gotten is that the subsidized colleges only give you 200 hours. Is this a strict limit, or can you get in extra hours, for example at the seaplane base in semester 3? Do you end up getting all the ratings advertised within the 200 hours?
2. How are the flights scheduled? Are there any backlogs, with some students getting the short end of the stick (as I've seen posted about Seneca)? Was the ski training getting skipped a one-off thing, or is there a lack of snow pretty often these years?
3. What's the general schedule like? Are all the classes during the 9-5 window (other than the field trip and the flights), and are all the AF courses taught at the airport (versus travelling to the campus)? Do you end up cutting into weekends pretty often (i.e. could you do a part-time job on the side, or weekend visits home to another city, or is that pretty impossible with the schedule)? During the program, what are the breaks (how long between terms, Christmas, etc). How stressful is the course work, and are some semesters harder than others? Looking at some courses like Winter Survival and First Aid, looks like they could be done in a few days? What are the hardest courses (I know this could be pretty subjective)? How many students have been getting weeded out of the starting class the last few years, and is most of this due to them slacking off and/or realizing they don't really want to do this, or are there some really bad classes/teachers/instructors? What kind of experience do the instructors have (the threads mentioned there being experienced bush pilots in the past - is this still the case?); i.e. are most of the instructors interns building their own hours and just covering TC guidelines, or are you getting some sage advice from guys with 1000s of hours under their belts?
4. What items are covered by the expenses amount mentioned on the website? $650 tools=? $500 uniform/boots (looking at the Youtube videos, there didn't seem to be a uniform)??
Do they offer/force you to buy any useless/unnecessary items - e.g. metal flight "computer", books that you don't use (are there any ones in particular that you really don't need), and do you end up buying stuff not listed - e.g. GPS, headset? How much is rent/groceries if you don't stay in res with meal plan?
5. What is the breakdown (how much of each) of the types of hours you get - solo, XC, sim, night, ski, float, multi, etc? Are the cross-country flights the same as the field trip mentioned in the tuition fees (there is one optional one - what's that, and do you pick up any extra flying hours)? How many hours can you get on the floats?
6. The website mentions that the school has 19 Cessnas. Is this still the case, and what kinds do they have? I know you don't get the multi rating like you at Sault Ste. Marie - so I'm guessing all the multi hours are on a sim? Is there a set number of hours you do, or can you use the sim as much you want? If you want to get your multi rating, how many hours would you have to pay for (the average student) additionally to get the multi rating? Is there a particular reason that a lot of the students take those hours in Cornwall (if they indeed do, in general), as opposed to a closer school, or in Toronto? Can you pay for extra hours at the school, and if so, how much do they charge? Do they have other kinds of planes you can rent?
7. The AF540 course, what does it cover and how many (and what kind) extra hours do you have to do to get an instructor rating afterward?
Long list, I know. Thanks.
Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Right Seat Captain, lilfssister
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
1) 200 hours is not a strict limit, but don't expect much more than that. All the ratings will be completed within the 200 hours with your final flight time working towards CPL flight test standard.
2) Everyone always looks at this question like its your instructors responsibility to get you done. Look at it as YOU are responsible. Somehow I managed to work part time on weekends etc, yet was on the higher end of the flight time with my class trying to stay ahead of the game. If you tell your instructor "call me any time someone calls in sick and I'll be ready to come in" I'm sure you will grab an extra flight or two each month. Once you are solo, no excuses, all you have to do is the regular flights you get scheduled and wait for other planes to come available with sick calls and no shows. The main point is if you are behind in your class, and you had not come down with significant illness in a semester that made it impossible to fly for months, its your fault for not staying on top of the flying. Don't expect your instructor to baby sit you, if you want more flight time call them and let them know (within reason obviously) And of course you always have the students who have exams coming up and cant study and fly in the same week so they shut themselves down. Its all about time management.
3) classes are always generated different. For the most part 9-5, however things like electives and survival courses are often in the evenings. but they also are not classes you have every day either. So maybe once of twice weekly you will need a free evening. Flying is 7 days a week, and you can negotiate with your instructor what days you want to fly. As for the rest of your question I can't answer why some people are not successful in the program and I can't tell you your instructors motivation and whether they are just there for hours. Feel free to ask the CFI and Interns when you are there.
4) Rent has gone up a bit in thunder bay over the years (just like everywhere). Check out Kijiji what you can get for your buck. Each Pfor runs their own class and book list so as to if anything is useless you will only know once the class is done. For the most part you will need all the books listed. I suggest you buy a headset, although the college has loaners I think. Maybe wait for completion of the PPL and ask for the headset as a gift.
5) Does this really matter? It wont make any difference on your resume after.
6) 172N/S and G1000's now since I have been gone. Students go to Cornwall because cornwall understands you are out of town, and want to complete the rating as fast and affordable as possible. However I am sure if you call any school and tell them your situation and schedule and ask if they can make it happen many schools can accommodate. Just remember from earlier its still your responsibility and if the time frame does not work out because of weather etc don't fault the school. Part of becoming a pilot is that everything is your responsibility, so start taking that attitude to your flight training.
good luck.
2) Everyone always looks at this question like its your instructors responsibility to get you done. Look at it as YOU are responsible. Somehow I managed to work part time on weekends etc, yet was on the higher end of the flight time with my class trying to stay ahead of the game. If you tell your instructor "call me any time someone calls in sick and I'll be ready to come in" I'm sure you will grab an extra flight or two each month. Once you are solo, no excuses, all you have to do is the regular flights you get scheduled and wait for other planes to come available with sick calls and no shows. The main point is if you are behind in your class, and you had not come down with significant illness in a semester that made it impossible to fly for months, its your fault for not staying on top of the flying. Don't expect your instructor to baby sit you, if you want more flight time call them and let them know (within reason obviously) And of course you always have the students who have exams coming up and cant study and fly in the same week so they shut themselves down. Its all about time management.
3) classes are always generated different. For the most part 9-5, however things like electives and survival courses are often in the evenings. but they also are not classes you have every day either. So maybe once of twice weekly you will need a free evening. Flying is 7 days a week, and you can negotiate with your instructor what days you want to fly. As for the rest of your question I can't answer why some people are not successful in the program and I can't tell you your instructors motivation and whether they are just there for hours. Feel free to ask the CFI and Interns when you are there.
4) Rent has gone up a bit in thunder bay over the years (just like everywhere). Check out Kijiji what you can get for your buck. Each Pfor runs their own class and book list so as to if anything is useless you will only know once the class is done. For the most part you will need all the books listed. I suggest you buy a headset, although the college has loaners I think. Maybe wait for completion of the PPL and ask for the headset as a gift.
5) Does this really matter? It wont make any difference on your resume after.
6) 172N/S and G1000's now since I have been gone. Students go to Cornwall because cornwall understands you are out of town, and want to complete the rating as fast and affordable as possible. However I am sure if you call any school and tell them your situation and schedule and ask if they can make it happen many schools can accommodate. Just remember from earlier its still your responsibility and if the time frame does not work out because of weather etc don't fault the school. Part of becoming a pilot is that everything is your responsibility, so start taking that attitude to your flight training.
good luck.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Bkerns, thanks for the input, I'm in a position of total ignorance here.
So what I got from your answer is that the planes are a bit of a scarce resource, but the school gives you reasonable access through a fair schedule that allows you to progress steadily. About point #5, I had been reading the threads on here about the bush flying courses (and insurance companies wanting 50h for more reasonable rates), so I was wondering how close to this you could get on the floats if you were proactive (i.e. to gauge how much more you would need to spend after graduating to get to 50h mark if you intended to do it through a school, and whether the instruction you got at Confed is pretty much the same as the bush courses... ditto about the multi engine hours/price - that's why I was asking whether you would be cut off once you've done the 200h).
About books, in my past experience many post-secondary text books are unnecessary, especially at a cost of like $230. The prof assigns one, but hardly ever goes through the whole thing, or the lectures are basically a copy of the relevant material (and/or the school library has a few copies). I was thinking about the non-aviation courses, like accounting.
So what I got from your answer is that the planes are a bit of a scarce resource, but the school gives you reasonable access through a fair schedule that allows you to progress steadily. About point #5, I had been reading the threads on here about the bush flying courses (and insurance companies wanting 50h for more reasonable rates), so I was wondering how close to this you could get on the floats if you were proactive (i.e. to gauge how much more you would need to spend after graduating to get to 50h mark if you intended to do it through a school, and whether the instruction you got at Confed is pretty much the same as the bush courses... ditto about the multi engine hours/price - that's why I was asking whether you would be cut off once you've done the 200h).
About books, in my past experience many post-secondary text books are unnecessary, especially at a cost of like $230. The prof assigns one, but hardly ever goes through the whole thing, or the lectures are basically a copy of the relevant material (and/or the school library has a few copies). I was thinking about the non-aviation courses, like accounting.
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SuperchargedRS
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
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Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Don't forget they, without fail, washout half the class after the first and most expensive semester, with zero refunds for the balance on meal plans etc.
I'd go the private route, you'll know what you're getting, you can find MUCH more experienced instructors and you'll end up better off.
I'd go the private route, you'll know what you're getting, you can find MUCH more experienced instructors and you'll end up better off.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Hi SuperchargedRS
I've read your posts about Confed, and I'm open to comparing vs the private route. I've got a uni degree already, so I don't care about the aviation diploma. On the other hand, I think I could get a few transfer credits, so first semester probably wouldn't be too stressful, and I don't think I'd be part of the washouts.
Could you break down the costs you incurred in doing it private (plus costs you would have had for the ~16h if you hadn't attended first semester)? Let's say for argument's sake that I could put almost full-time effort into this... could I get my CPL free and clear in a year, given Canadian weather? If so, I'll bite that you can save like $16k of extra rent and groceries by cutting out one year's worth (although you're spending this no matter whether you're doing this or living your life otherwise). Zero possibility that I'd be suckered into rez or paying for a meal plan.
Would you recommend trying to get a Stinson, or a Cessna? About how much did you spend (or would one spend) on purchase price? I see a couple of Cessnas on Kijiji for ~$16k. I'm also open to the idea of group ownership if this would still allow you to do your 200 hours reasonably.
Now what about the non-purchase costs of having the plane for a year (close to the Toronto area)?
1) How much is insurance for a year?
2) How about hangar/storage? I don't have a property where to store it.
3) What are routine maintenance costs for a plane for one year?
4) I'm also thinking if anything happened to go mechanically on the plane, it would be a huge hemorrhage for parts and labour that would obviate any saving - although I don't know anything about this. What's are the worst expenses - e.g. engine overhaul, other routine maintenance - and what are the price tags in these cases? From what I'm reading, an engine has to be rebuilt every 1800-2000h at a cost of about $15k, which comes out to about $8/flying hour.
Now operation/learning costs:
1) I'm ballparking $25/h on fuel x200=5k, but not sure what's realistic for fuel consumption... what kind of fuel do you use for a Cessna 150 series, and how many litres does it burn per hour, on average (I'm basing this on about ~$1.50/L, and burning about ~15L/h)?
2) How much did you pay your instructor? Let's say $25/h x200= 5k (is this realistic? not resorting to a minimally experienced instructor; and how many hours do you end up doing solo without the instructor for your first 200h?... im averaging, based on paying a bit more, but not having him present all the time)
3) Ground school. What's the best option for this, local flying school vs online? I'm guessing like $1000 to get you through to CPL?
4) TC exam costs - Confed website says about $1600 - is this accurate?
5) I'm going to throw random numbers for my other unknowns: $2k for hangar rental, $2k for insurance, $8/hx200=$1600 for engine rebuild, $1800 oil changes and inspection...
So I'm getting roughly $20k. Am I leaving out any significant costs?
Besides the investment and hassle involved in looking for a plane without problems and a good instructor, is it realistic to be able to have the plane for a year, fly and be instructed and tested to your CPL, all for~ 20k? Would all of this be tax-deductible if you're going through to CPL?
Everyone reading this, please give me your comments, or feel free to PM me.
Thanks
I've read your posts about Confed, and I'm open to comparing vs the private route. I've got a uni degree already, so I don't care about the aviation diploma. On the other hand, I think I could get a few transfer credits, so first semester probably wouldn't be too stressful, and I don't think I'd be part of the washouts.
Could you break down the costs you incurred in doing it private (plus costs you would have had for the ~16h if you hadn't attended first semester)? Let's say for argument's sake that I could put almost full-time effort into this... could I get my CPL free and clear in a year, given Canadian weather? If so, I'll bite that you can save like $16k of extra rent and groceries by cutting out one year's worth (although you're spending this no matter whether you're doing this or living your life otherwise). Zero possibility that I'd be suckered into rez or paying for a meal plan.
Would you recommend trying to get a Stinson, or a Cessna? About how much did you spend (or would one spend) on purchase price? I see a couple of Cessnas on Kijiji for ~$16k. I'm also open to the idea of group ownership if this would still allow you to do your 200 hours reasonably.
Now what about the non-purchase costs of having the plane for a year (close to the Toronto area)?
1) How much is insurance for a year?
2) How about hangar/storage? I don't have a property where to store it.
3) What are routine maintenance costs for a plane for one year?
4) I'm also thinking if anything happened to go mechanically on the plane, it would be a huge hemorrhage for parts and labour that would obviate any saving - although I don't know anything about this. What's are the worst expenses - e.g. engine overhaul, other routine maintenance - and what are the price tags in these cases? From what I'm reading, an engine has to be rebuilt every 1800-2000h at a cost of about $15k, which comes out to about $8/flying hour.
Now operation/learning costs:
1) I'm ballparking $25/h on fuel x200=5k, but not sure what's realistic for fuel consumption... what kind of fuel do you use for a Cessna 150 series, and how many litres does it burn per hour, on average (I'm basing this on about ~$1.50/L, and burning about ~15L/h)?
2) How much did you pay your instructor? Let's say $25/h x200= 5k (is this realistic? not resorting to a minimally experienced instructor; and how many hours do you end up doing solo without the instructor for your first 200h?... im averaging, based on paying a bit more, but not having him present all the time)
3) Ground school. What's the best option for this, local flying school vs online? I'm guessing like $1000 to get you through to CPL?
4) TC exam costs - Confed website says about $1600 - is this accurate?
5) I'm going to throw random numbers for my other unknowns: $2k for hangar rental, $2k for insurance, $8/hx200=$1600 for engine rebuild, $1800 oil changes and inspection...
So I'm getting roughly $20k. Am I leaving out any significant costs?
Besides the investment and hassle involved in looking for a plane without problems and a good instructor, is it realistic to be able to have the plane for a year, fly and be instructed and tested to your CPL, all for~ 20k? Would all of this be tax-deductible if you're going through to CPL?
Everyone reading this, please give me your comments, or feel free to PM me.
Thanks
Last edited by payaso on Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:10 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
I'm not saying that private flight schools are not there to make money (plus they have rent and salaries to pay), but it seems like they would have some advantage due to the volume they are able to provide to their instructors and mechanics. Looking at various flight schools, they seem to charge about $65/h per hour for an instructor and $140 for a Cessna 152 (not sure whether this is wet and whether you have to pay any extras like insurance), plus tax on both.
So the question becomes how much you can do this for totally on your own.
1) Taking into account gas and insurance, how much are private owners renting similar planes out for, if you buy blocks of time (I see a Cessna on kijiji for ~$60/h dry)?
2) How does this compare to buying a plane in good condition, and what are the risks of running into huge losses with the need for repairs shortly thereafter? How easy is it (i.e. how much time, on average, will it take a newbie with no contacts) to find a good plane to buy, and to sell it after at the same price (or get into and out of a good time-share)?
3) How much can you get a good, experienced instructor for on your own?
What I'm calculating, private rental would seem to be ~ $100/h (60 block rental + 25 fuel +15 for tax and insurance) x200= 20k
$5000 for instruction, $2600 for ground school plus TC exam fees= $7600
Total: ~$28k
... so pay about 8k to avoid worrying about buying/selling plane, storing it and possible permutations of maintenance on it... but now you can't fly where and when you want
Otherwise, if paying for a private flight school to avoid all worries about the plane, it's similar to going to Confed. Most PFUs appear to quote $45-60k to get a CPL, whereas Confed charges $17k for education (let's add $35k on rent/groceries for two years, for a total of $52k). Although faster and better convenience, not sure how much better a private flying school is than Confed (I could see the instructors being less experienced in some cases... comments?). And to be more realistic, you don't have mommy and daddy paying your room and board, so let's add one year of that to your flight school, for a total of about $70k (vs $52k for two years at Confed). In this case, Confed is a bit better of a deal. If you discount room and board entirely, then it's $55k for private school vs $17k for Confed.
Anybody have any comments about what networking opportunities for the future you gain/miss by going to Confed vs a PFU?
So the question becomes how much you can do this for totally on your own.
1) Taking into account gas and insurance, how much are private owners renting similar planes out for, if you buy blocks of time (I see a Cessna on kijiji for ~$60/h dry)?
2) How does this compare to buying a plane in good condition, and what are the risks of running into huge losses with the need for repairs shortly thereafter? How easy is it (i.e. how much time, on average, will it take a newbie with no contacts) to find a good plane to buy, and to sell it after at the same price (or get into and out of a good time-share)?
3) How much can you get a good, experienced instructor for on your own?
What I'm calculating, private rental would seem to be ~ $100/h (60 block rental + 25 fuel +15 for tax and insurance) x200= 20k
$5000 for instruction, $2600 for ground school plus TC exam fees= $7600
Total: ~$28k
... so pay about 8k to avoid worrying about buying/selling plane, storing it and possible permutations of maintenance on it... but now you can't fly where and when you want
Otherwise, if paying for a private flight school to avoid all worries about the plane, it's similar to going to Confed. Most PFUs appear to quote $45-60k to get a CPL, whereas Confed charges $17k for education (let's add $35k on rent/groceries for two years, for a total of $52k). Although faster and better convenience, not sure how much better a private flying school is than Confed (I could see the instructors being less experienced in some cases... comments?). And to be more realistic, you don't have mommy and daddy paying your room and board, so let's add one year of that to your flight school, for a total of about $70k (vs $52k for two years at Confed). In this case, Confed is a bit better of a deal. If you discount room and board entirely, then it's $55k for private school vs $17k for Confed.
Anybody have any comments about what networking opportunities for the future you gain/miss by going to Confed vs a PFU?
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ActionAxson
- Rank 1
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:42 pm
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
So I just finished up the first semester of Confederation's program. I have to say I'm super happy with my choice. Out of ~58 of us that started I think we have ~42 left. Whoever passes the courses continues in the program. I had my PPL prior to starting the program and that has made a world of difference. Going from 0 - Solo + Written PPL is a pretty steep curve.
The facilities are super nice. The ACE center is top notch, super clean, well organized. The schedule is a little wonky. You don't really get much time off and mid as well plan on spending the majority of the 2 years in Thunder Bay.
I can't really stress how crappy life at the residence is for flight students. ~90% of your classes are out at the ACE which is a 45 minute bus ride from the main campus. Plus you pay a ton and there are next to no refunds if you're not successful.
Having seen both sides (PPL at a PFU/The rest @ Confed). I think there is a lot of value in the College program.
PM me for more details!
The facilities are super nice. The ACE center is top notch, super clean, well organized. The schedule is a little wonky. You don't really get much time off and mid as well plan on spending the majority of the 2 years in Thunder Bay.
I can't really stress how crappy life at the residence is for flight students. ~90% of your classes are out at the ACE which is a 45 minute bus ride from the main campus. Plus you pay a ton and there are next to no refunds if you're not successful.
Having seen both sides (PPL at a PFU/The rest @ Confed). I think there is a lot of value in the College program.
PM me for more details!
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
In Confed right now. Shoot me a PM for any relevant information.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
I never went to Confed, but I live & flew out of YQT for years. I got my licenses privately and went to university.
The one thing I can say is that pretty much all of the grads get jobs right away. I don't think many private schools can say that. Employers no they're getting a known quantity. If my kids want to follow me into aviation, I'd tell them to go to Confed.
I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?
The one thing I can say is that pretty much all of the grads get jobs right away. I don't think many private schools can say that. Employers no they're getting a known quantity. If my kids want to follow me into aviation, I'd tell them to go to Confed.
I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
They're not completely getting rid of float/skis. In the upcoming years they're transitioning to something more similar to Algonquin college. Where student have to choose between either the group 3 or the float rating. Plus side is they get a lot of hours compared to what students get now on floats, down side, they have to make a huge decision very early on without experiencing either. They've always slowly been erasing the ski program, I believe we only get a flight or two on skis now.Bede wrote: I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?
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PropToFeather
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- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:20 pm
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
I always found it interesting that people think that the aviation college programs are a piece of cake. Especially the for the first two semesters (PPL license, basically), pretty much every program I've heard of is designed to wash you out if you don't have what it takes.
@payaso, the advantage of going the college route is that you get a very rigorously scheduled training regimen, with strict timelines, and (usually) strict adherence to them to remain in the program. (Also, the costs of college programs is usually subsidized to a large part, so they end up being cheaper). The advantage of doing private instruction (freelance or FTU) is that it is generally more tailored to train you, specifically. Additionally, depending on your ability and willingness to learn, private programs can be shorter (and, in some cases, significantly shorter) time-wise than colleges. Especially if you're willing to (learn to) fly like it was a full-time job, you can be finished with all your rating in a year and change versus 3-4 years of college.
One isn't necessarily better than the other - unless the FTU you pick is absolutely awful - but simply depends on what you want to do, and how quickly you want to get there... and also how much money you have (or have to borrow) to make that plan a reality.
Finally, to your question on instructor experience, I have no experience with Confed, but from what I have seen elsewhere, it's usually a mix of 75% brand new CPLs instructing, 10% old veterans that love instructing, and the other 15% a mix of different walks of (aviation) life. Neither of those groups is a guarantee of better training, so you really have to judge how well your instructor's teaching style matches your learning style once you get going.
@payaso, the advantage of going the college route is that you get a very rigorously scheduled training regimen, with strict timelines, and (usually) strict adherence to them to remain in the program. (Also, the costs of college programs is usually subsidized to a large part, so they end up being cheaper). The advantage of doing private instruction (freelance or FTU) is that it is generally more tailored to train you, specifically. Additionally, depending on your ability and willingness to learn, private programs can be shorter (and, in some cases, significantly shorter) time-wise than colleges. Especially if you're willing to (learn to) fly like it was a full-time job, you can be finished with all your rating in a year and change versus 3-4 years of college.
One isn't necessarily better than the other - unless the FTU you pick is absolutely awful - but simply depends on what you want to do, and how quickly you want to get there... and also how much money you have (or have to borrow) to make that plan a reality.
Finally, to your question on instructor experience, I have no experience with Confed, but from what I have seen elsewhere, it's usually a mix of 75% brand new CPLs instructing, 10% old veterans that love instructing, and the other 15% a mix of different walks of (aviation) life. Neither of those groups is a guarantee of better training, so you really have to judge how well your instructor's teaching style matches your learning style once you get going.
If at first you don't succeed, maybe NDB approaches just aren't for you
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
As much as I have heard of the reputation of Confed. From what I've seen and heard the program is becoming a watered down version of what it once was. Sure they may still wash people out for poor marks or flying skills, however I know of more than a few cases where students have returned more than once to try again. The practice of letting students return wastes taxpayers money on people that don't recognize the subbsidized opportunity given to them. I look at the subsidized programs as a sort of scholarship type idea. Flying is an expensive undertaking and lets face it has traditionaly been reserved for those with more disposable income. Programs like Confed. and Sault. allow anyone the opportunity to become a pilot as long as they are willing to work hard and have some aptitude. Allowing failed students to return for numerous attempts at the program not only erodes the colleges reputation for a quality product, it is also unfair to the students who worked hard and got a diploma from said college thinking it would mean something.
As I understand it Confed. is transitioning out of floats and into giving a single engine IFR instead. They say they are going to offer a choice however I don't believe that many people are going to opt out of an IFR ticket for a float rating-I could be wrong. Moving away from a bush specialty school that taught students how to think and use their hands and feet and into the cookie cutter SINGLE engine IFR game is in my opinion a mistake. Confederation will be competing with the Senecas and Sault colleges however they will be short on IFR instructing experience in comparison and students will only get a SINGLE ENGINE IFR.
As I understand it Confed. is transitioning out of floats and into giving a single engine IFR instead. They say they are going to offer a choice however I don't believe that many people are going to opt out of an IFR ticket for a float rating-I could be wrong. Moving away from a bush specialty school that taught students how to think and use their hands and feet and into the cookie cutter SINGLE engine IFR game is in my opinion a mistake. Confederation will be competing with the Senecas and Sault colleges however they will be short on IFR instructing experience in comparison and students will only get a SINGLE ENGINE IFR.
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SuperchargedRS
- Rank (9)
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- Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:30 am
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Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
This has been my experience.
Coming from into confed as someone with a real degree and past grown up work experience, it's not a real college program, the degree is pointless and the aviation training is that great, the instructors a highly inexperienced with near zero real world experience.
For what I paid for first semester, books, manadatory meal plan and other "required" purchases, etc etc, compared to the fight hours I logged, I was paying something stupid like $400per flight hour in a frickin 172. I went into the final end all be all test (which according to the student handbook goes against the school policy of passing or failing students based on ALL of their work) with a good average, managed to pass the first test, which many failed, but somehow failed the second test even though it's basically a carbon copy of the first one...no one would show me my corrected tests, hmm.
I ended up buying my own Tailwheel plane, doing all my hour building and training in that, ended up with 250hrs, this was including my IFR, CPL, float time (rented), I ended up keeping my plane for about 6 years after that until I bought my 185, had I sold my first plane right after my training was complete I would have been out of pocket 10k total.
Also my first two jobs I would not have been able to get bad I not had 200+ hours Tailwheel including a real backcountry time.
Coming from into confed as someone with a real degree and past grown up work experience, it's not a real college program, the degree is pointless and the aviation training is that great, the instructors a highly inexperienced with near zero real world experience.
For what I paid for first semester, books, manadatory meal plan and other "required" purchases, etc etc, compared to the fight hours I logged, I was paying something stupid like $400per flight hour in a frickin 172. I went into the final end all be all test (which according to the student handbook goes against the school policy of passing or failing students based on ALL of their work) with a good average, managed to pass the first test, which many failed, but somehow failed the second test even though it's basically a carbon copy of the first one...no one would show me my corrected tests, hmm.
I ended up buying my own Tailwheel plane, doing all my hour building and training in that, ended up with 250hrs, this was including my IFR, CPL, float time (rented), I ended up keeping my plane for about 6 years after that until I bought my 185, had I sold my first plane right after my training was complete I would have been out of pocket 10k total.
Also my first two jobs I would not have been able to get bad I not had 200+ hours Tailwheel including a real backcountry time.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
SuperchargedRS:
Could you give me an exact breakdown of your costs please?
Where and for how much did you get your instructor? How many hours did you have him for? What kinds of things do you feel he taught you that the college instructors couldnt?
What did you end up spending on your plane, besides purchase price? Did you store at your house or tie-down? Insurance? Cost of fuel? Inspections? Maintenance, parts, oil changes?
How much would you spend on all the TC exams going from scratch and which ground school would you recommend and for how much?
Any feelings on buying block rental time from an owner instead of buying a plane?
Could you give me an exact breakdown of your costs please?
Where and for how much did you get your instructor? How many hours did you have him for? What kinds of things do you feel he taught you that the college instructors couldnt?
What did you end up spending on your plane, besides purchase price? Did you store at your house or tie-down? Insurance? Cost of fuel? Inspections? Maintenance, parts, oil changes?
How much would you spend on all the TC exams going from scratch and which ground school would you recommend and for how much?
Any feelings on buying block rental time from an owner instead of buying a plane?
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Well I guess that's the end of discussion about how you can train cheaper on your own vs Confed.
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
This was like 7 years ago so I'm not really going to be able to give you a exact breakdown.payaso wrote:SuperchargedRS:
Could you give me an exact breakdown of your costs please?
Where and for how much did you get your instructor? How many hours did you have him for? What kinds of things do you feel he taught you that the college instructors couldnt?
What did you end up spending on your plane, besides purchase price? Did you store at your house or tie-down? Insurance? Cost of fuel? Inspections? Maintenance, parts, oil changes?
How much would you spend on all the TC exams going from scratch and which ground school would you recommend and for how much?
Any feelings on buying block rental time from an owner instead of buying a plane?
Ether way, look into private schools, look into buying a Cessna 140/150 etc, look into finding a freelance high time instructor.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
The amount of Confed pilots up in Sioux/Red is enormous. Great place to go if you want a good shot at a job.Bede wrote:I never went to Confed, but I live & flew out of YQT for years. I got my licenses privately and went to university.
The one thing I can say is that pretty much all of the grads get jobs right away. I don't think many private schools can say that. Employers no they're getting a known quantity. If my kids want to follow me into aviation, I'd tell them to go to Confed.
I heard Confed is getting rid of floats/skis and doing IFR training instead. Is this true?
Had I knows of the subsidized programs prior to doing my training I would have tried to go to one of them.
The person who "budgeted" the $28k through private rental... You are SO far off it's not even funny.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Where do you get this crap? I've seen classes where more than 40 students out of 60 passed. It's an awesome program. Yes, if you fail first semester, that's pretty expensive. So don't fail. When you graduate, you have over 200 hours, a CPL, and lots of good courses under your belt that you normally wouldn't get from a private flight school. When I went through (graduated 2009), I think my total tuition expense for my whole time there was less than $15k.
SuperchargedRS wrote:Don't forget they, without fail, washout half the class after the first and most expensive semester, with zero refunds for the balance on meal plans etc.
I'd go the private route, you'll know what you're getting, you can find MUCH more experienced instructors and you'll end up better off.
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Working through the numbers this week for my daughter, but I bet it ends up cheaper than private training in my plane.
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
From recent experience, all of the ratings could be achieved for less than 15$K CAD. This is without owning an aircraft to do the training or knowing anybody prior.
It is all about your priorities.
It is all about your priorities.
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PropToFeather
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Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
I, for one, would like to know more about this "train cheap scheme". Especially if by "all ratings" you mean CPL + MIFRYvesT wrote:From recent experience, all of the ratings could be achieved for less than 15$K CAD. This is without owning an aircraft to do the training or knowing anybody prior.
If at first you don't succeed, maybe NDB approaches just aren't for you
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SuperchargedRS
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Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
tbayav8er wrote:Where do you get this crap? I've seen classes where more than 40 students out of 60 passed. It's an awesome program. Yes, if you fail first semester, that's pretty expensive. So don't fail. When you graduate, you have over 200 hours, a CPL, and lots of good courses under your belt that you normally wouldn't get from a private flight school. When I went through (graduated 2009), I think my total tuition expense for my whole time there was less than $15k.
SuperchargedRS wrote:Don't forget they, without fail, washout half the class after the first and most expensive semester, with zero refunds for the balance on meal plans etc.
I'd go the private route, you'll know what you're getting, you can find MUCH more experienced instructors and you'll end up better off.
Just from my time over there.
Had a few foks who were bombing the whole program fail out, some others were doing well and failed the final mystery test and failed out. When I was there is was nearly half the class.
Also as far as money goes, there's much more to calculate outside from just tuition.
To each their own
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Make sure you are using the right info when comparing costs. People mention the cost of being at Confed for 2 years when in fact you will only be in T Bay for 18 months. It is a 2 year program but you start in Sept of one year and are done in April of the following year.
There are not many people that go to a mom and pop flying school to do it on their own that can do a commercial, night, floats etc. in 18 months let alone for anywhere near the cost.
Sure they was out the ones who aren't cutting it. Just don't be one of them!
There are not many people that go to a mom and pop flying school to do it on their own that can do a commercial, night, floats etc. in 18 months let alone for anywhere near the cost.
Sure they was out the ones who aren't cutting it. Just don't be one of them!
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
Re: Confederation College, Thunder Bay
Not sure about now, but back in the day they washed out 2/3rd's of the class after first year! A few were lacking the skill to fly but aced the accounting programs and were kept in, if you flubbed the accounting classes you got the boot no matter what. Still couldn't figure out why you needed all those business classes for this course, but anyways... you had all your documentation sent to a review panel after the first year and they decided if you got punted or not.
Starts in Sept but you work the following summer getting the float endorsement, year two was commercial work and you were done by April. Might have changed by now though. It's a good course, but again the business side of it sucks and is basically useless... I think it's their way of having an excuse to "cull the herd" after year one...
Starts in Sept but you work the following summer getting the float endorsement, year two was commercial work and you were done by April. Might have changed by now though. It's a good course, but again the business side of it sucks and is basically useless... I think it's their way of having an excuse to "cull the herd" after year one...
