The Air Canada OTS thread

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
37
4%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
101
10%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
154
16%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
160
17%
Total Time 1500/2000
50
5%
2000/3000
106
11%
3000/ More
361
37%
 
Total votes: 969

alkaseltzer
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by alkaseltzer »

jpilot77 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:50 am
orangejuice wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:01 am
olivierw wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:15 pm Apparently calls for Feb 8th start date (Feb 13th in person) are going out.
So 3 PIT courses in February… 6,13,22? That seems like a lot
There are rumours that they still want to get to 6000 pilots by summer 24. They’re running classes every 2 weeks now.
Fat chance...aircraft production is delayed.
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Vanguard
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Vanguard »

jpilot77 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:50 am
orangejuice wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:01 am
olivierw wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:15 pm Apparently calls for Feb 8th start date (Feb 13th in person) are going out.
So 3 PIT courses in February… 6,13,22? That seems like a lot
There are rumours that they still want to get to 6000 pilots by summer 24. They’re running classes every 2 weeks now.
It was 6300 in 2026. The amount of wrong information here is nuts.

700 more this year with GS every 2 weeks is the aim.

1100 Oct 2023-Oct 2024 and

700 Oct2024-2025



Retirement Average is at 121 all the way upto 2037. AVERAGE. Some years its 60-70 some it'll be 120+.
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thepoors
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by thepoors »

Vanguard wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:56 pm
jpilot77 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:50 am
orangejuice wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:01 am

So 3 PIT courses in February… 6,13,22? That seems like a lot
There are rumours that they still want to get to 6000 pilots by summer 24. They’re running classes every 2 weeks now.
It was 6300 in 2026. The amount of wrong information here is nuts.

700 more this year with GS every 2 weeks is the aim.

1100 Oct 2023-Oct 2024 and

700 Oct2024-2025



Retirement Average is at 121 all the way upto 2037. AVERAGE. Some years its 60-70 some it'll be 120+.
Can you explain why there is such a frantic hiring push going on right now? Why not spread it out?

Just looking at the numbers here: ~120 retirements/yr doesn't seem to warrant so much hiring. 120/yr for the next 14yrs is only 1700. Why do they need 2500 new hires by 2026? There is little, if any, fleet growth happening. I can easily see any downturn causing a surplus situation ripe for layoffs.
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sstaurus
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by sstaurus »

Only what I’ve been told.. but Apparently they were short even before covid. And another 8-900 is for the new duty rules. Add in some retirements, plus jazz repatriation …but I can’t explain the full amount… seems like a lot to me as well.
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

sstaurus wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:53 am Only what I’ve been told.. but Apparently they were short even before covid. And another 8-900 is for the new duty rules. Add in some retirements, plus jazz repatriation …but I can’t explain the full amount… seems like a lot to me as well.
The training pipeline cannot accommodate the numbers referenced above on an annual basis. How many type courses can the system handle? 600 PIT type courses plus another 800-1000 type courses from current pilots?

AC may well get to 6000 but it will likely be at a pace of 600/yr.
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FL030
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by FL030 »

indieadventurer wrote: Thu Jan 19, 2023 6:32 pm 8000+ TT with 500+ PIC 737 and university degree.

Haven’t been able to get an interview since posting went up in the spring.

Anyone else with a similar background hearing nothing?
I'd start a new application from a different email host. They're hiring King Air medevac pilots now, they should be at least interviewing you. Sometimes things fall through the cracks. A lot of the initial application review is likely done by computers instead of people.
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Vanguard
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Vanguard »

thepoors wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:40 am
Vanguard wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:56 pm
jpilot77 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:50 am

There are rumours that they still want to get to 6000 pilots by summer 24. They’re running classes every 2 weeks now.
It was 6300 in 2026. The amount of wrong information here is nuts.

700 more this year with GS every 2 weeks is the aim.

1100 Oct 2023-Oct 2024 and

700 Oct2024-2025



Retirement Average is at 121 all the way upto 2037. AVERAGE. Some years its 60-70 some it'll be 120+.
Can you explain why there is such a frantic hiring push going on right now? Why not spread it out?

Just looking at the numbers here: ~120 retirements/yr doesn't seem to warrant so much hiring. 120/yr for the next 14yrs is only 1700. Why do they need 2500 new hires by 2026? There is little, if any, fleet growth happening. I can easily see any downturn causing a surplus situation ripe for layoffs.
Air Canada does not have the pilots for their summer schedule right now. The hiring is a combination of future retirements, CARS duty regulations, Attrition (YES AC Has it too but not as high ~ approx 20/yr) and projected fleet growth. Keep in mind AC is not currently hiring all 20yr olds. Its a mix bag of experience from all over the world.

I don't think layoffs are expected unless there is a major or extreme downturn in the economic climate or lockdown. The demand for air travel is strong and AC has a strong pull in the US/International Markets. The demand for travel has never been crazier and it will be hard for AC to cover all the flying possible. The hiring will need to continue to meet the demand for the foreseeable future.
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TheStig
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by TheStig »

I have to disagree with the post above, with the caveat that if there is a massive recession there won't be much movement for roughly 2-3 years, but I believe that would unfortunately be the same situation (or worse) regardless of which airline you worked for.

With reference to the two seniority projectors available one shows 280 mandatory (age 65) retirements between 2023-2026, while the other subscription service projects over 400 from 2022-2025, I've referenced those projections for about 10 years and found them to be accurate to within +/-5 annually. A pretty impressive mathematical projection when you account for unforeseen but sadly inevitable loses due to deaths, life long disabilities, resignations, and terminations.

Retirements ebb and flow, and the ebb we have today is a result of the early retirements in 2020/21. For the 6 years after 2026 projected retirements range from 110-150 annually. A pilot hired today at sen. 4500 could expect to see themselves move up to roughly sen 3300 in the next 10 years.

So what all that mean? That depends on the fleet. As of Dec 31/22 AC had 233 aircraft between ML/LCC with roughly 4500 pilots, on Dec 31/20 there were 255 and the last projection prior to the pandemic 261 aircraft were planned to be in the fleet at the end of 2021 to be flown by a planned 5000 pilots, with the junior Captains positions being awarded in the 3600-3800 range. I'm not sure where the 6000 pilot number came from but from what's been announced the 23 parked LCC 767's capacity is being replaced by a combination of the A21XLR and exercised 787 options. From what's been announced some A220 options and factory new 767/777 freighters have been ordered/exercised as well. That's easily 5000+ pilots by 2025 even with new aircraft phasing out some older airframes. 6000 seems like a massive number but so did 4000 when rumours of a massive hiring spree were being used to pitch a 10 year contract.

The latest financial statements available don't offer much insight past the end of this year, the full year 2022 results provided next month should provide a longer term picture. The pre-pandemic Air Canada seemed to believe there was a market for a fleet of 250-270 aircraft.
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

TheStig wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:45 am
The latest financial statements available don't offer much insight past the end of this year, the full year 2022 results provided next month should provide a longer term picture. The pre-pandemic Air Canada seemed to believe there was a market for a fleet of 250-270 aircraft.
There are 60 76 seat jets operated by Express.

The process of substituting mainline NB and Rouge aircraft on to Express operated routes began prior to COVID and is continuing now. The A220 converted options and extension of A319 fleet operations is a manifest result of this evolution.

Where that goes 2023-2025 remains TBD. But each time an additional A220 is ordered or A319’s remain in the AC fleet plan is another nail in the Express 76 seat jet coffin.

Notably, there has been ZERO public discussion by either AC, CHR, or Jazz about 76 seat jet fleet renewal. That is an ominous sign for the future of the Express 76 seat jet operation.

Mainline pilot staffing will increase if Express/Jazz pilot staffing decreases.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by flyingcanuck »

rudder wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:18 pm
TheStig wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 10:45 am
The latest financial statements available don't offer much insight past the end of this year, the full year 2022 results provided next month should provide a longer term picture. The pre-pandemic Air Canada seemed to believe there was a market for a fleet of 250-270 aircraft.


Notably, there has been ZERO public discussion by either AC, CHR, or Jazz about 76 seat jet fleet renewal. That is an ominous sign for the future of the Express 76 seat jet operation.

why would there be, its locked in for another 13 years?
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

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Last edited by rudder on Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

flyingcanuck wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:58 pm why would there be, its locked in for another 13 years?
Has nothing to do with the term of the CPA.

40 of the 76 seat jets are vintage 2005/2006 date of manufacture. That is quite old in the world of regional jets.

All of the original AC E190’s are in the desert….. same vintage.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Jean-Pierre »

What about a Porter deal? How big are their jets going to be?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by C-GGGQ »

132 seats for the 195’s
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Jean-Pierre »

Oh never mind. We crush them then.
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Crewbunk
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Crewbunk »

rudder wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:34 pm All of the original AC E190’s are in the desert….. same vintage.
Not all of them, but we get the point. But it has more to do with that there is little market for a 97 seat aircraft that burns more fuel than a Max8.
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Sharklasers
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Sharklasers »

rudder wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:34 pm
flyingcanuck wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:58 pm why would there be, its locked in for another 13 years?
Has nothing to do with the term of the CPA.

40 of the 76 seat jets are vintage 2005/2006 date of manufacture. That is quite old in the world of regional jets.

All of the original AC E190’s are in the desert….. same vintage.
The newest mainline A320 is 2002 and 5 are from 1991-1993. 2 of the 767 are 1989. Those RJs are practically new in AC terms.
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

Sharklasers wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:59 pm
rudder wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:34 pm
flyingcanuck wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:58 pm why would there be, its locked in for another 13 years?
Has nothing to do with the term of the CPA.

40 of the 76 seat jets are vintage 2005/2006 date of manufacture. That is quite old in the world of regional jets.

All of the original AC E190’s are in the desert….. same vintage.
The newest mainline A320 is 2002 and 5 are from 1991-1993. 2 of the 767 are 1989. Those RJs are practically new in AC terms.
True.

But the CRJ and possibly the ERJ were not built for the durability or lifespan of a Boeing or an Airbus. There is no such thing as an 80000 cycle regional jet. D check cost typically exceeds residual value with removable parts sold.
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cloudseeker
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by cloudseeker »

Hi everyone!

Recently did the interview and medical and wondering what's the average time to get a background check?
Also what's the current call back time post interview nowadays?

Pm is welcome.

Cheers!
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olivierw
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by olivierw »

Background check roughly 10 business days after interview/medical.

Call back 2 months after the interview.
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