The name of an individual or the name of the company on a certificate of registration of an aircraft means that they are the sole owners of that particular aircraft.
If I lease an aircraft from ABC company the name on the C of R would read ABC company and not my own even though I am leasing it for a period of time.
I posed a question earlier regarding company A and company B owning, leasing and all that crap. If company A OWNS and also FLIES (operates) the airplane but the airplane is registered under company B because company A does not have the authority or certificate to fly does company B which did A the favour not get compensated for their troubles even though company A and company B are high school buddies.
I know fougapilot mentioned that company A owns the airplane and company B operates it but in this case company A owns it and also flies it but company B has registered it under their operating certificate, I guess they were both scratching each other's back.
And company A made a very good income from a contract to fly goods so does this mean that company B also gets paid or just some sort of management fee.
thanks guys.
Helinas
Certificate of Registration
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wallypilot
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That's exactly it. My company operates three aircraft for another company that actually owns the aircraft but has no interest in managing the aircraft. They are not aircraft operators and realise that we can do it more economically. Those three aircraft have my company's name on the CofR, despite the fact that our client is the actual owner. you can structure the agreements however you want in terms of sub leasing, charter, etc. In our case, these 3 aircraft are solely dedicated to the owner and we have no option to use them in any other endeavour.
If A operates the aircraft that B owns then there are very specific items that the lease must state regarding who's operationaly in control. In addition to the normal CofR forms you will have to complete "Annex to Application for Registration of a Leased Aircraft". See: TC 26-0309
Item F is pretty clear regarding your paragraph 3 (A cannot own and "pilot" it while B holds the certificate - if that's what you meant).
As to who gets paid what, well that's a negotiated agreement of terms/conditions and that will depend on the relationship between A and B (does A just own it to lease or do they own it so they may use it?) Either way there will fixed and variable components.
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Custody and Control lies with the operator, the lease holder. The cost of the lease will likely be B's only responsibility (if A owns the aircraft and wants to be flown around in it under B's ticket). So B will likely lease the aircraft from B for one dollar.
The reason you want the Custody and Control with the lease holder is because they're ultimately responsible. If an accident happens it's their ass on the line, not A's. So, when it comes to maintenance, you want to be very clear between parties who makes the decisions. If A are a bunch of cheapskates and you didn't have this nailed down then B will either maintain to their standard and take it out as their own loss (financially) or become sloppy and lazy to certain items on the maintenance schedule (like maybe going into the realm of - "on condition" -YIKES).
So if you're B, make damn sure A will put up the cash for maintenance/improvements without poking their fingers all over the accounting ledgers.
edit to include previous post
Item F is pretty clear regarding your paragraph 3 (A cannot own and "pilot" it while B holds the certificate - if that's what you meant).
As to who gets paid what, well that's a negotiated agreement of terms/conditions and that will depend on the relationship between A and B (does A just own it to lease or do they own it so they may use it?) Either way there will fixed and variable components.
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Custody and Control lies with the operator, the lease holder. The cost of the lease will likely be B's only responsibility (if A owns the aircraft and wants to be flown around in it under B's ticket). So B will likely lease the aircraft from B for one dollar.
The reason you want the Custody and Control with the lease holder is because they're ultimately responsible. If an accident happens it's their ass on the line, not A's. So, when it comes to maintenance, you want to be very clear between parties who makes the decisions. If A are a bunch of cheapskates and you didn't have this nailed down then B will either maintain to their standard and take it out as their own loss (financially) or become sloppy and lazy to certain items on the maintenance schedule (like maybe going into the realm of - "on condition" -YIKES).
So if you're B, make damn sure A will put up the cash for maintenance/improvements without poking their fingers all over the accounting ledgers.
edit to include previous post
There are two definitions of OWNERS. "Care and Control" and "Legally OWN".
In TC eyes it is the person or company who has "care and control" of the aircraft and will be the name on the CofR. What makes it confusing is that TC calls it the OWNER on the CofR..
T.C. dosen't really care if an investment company "Legally OWNS" the product.
TC needs to have access to the company who's name is on the CofR so they can contact if there is an Airworthiness Directive or other instruction for continuied airworthiness.
PITA
In TC eyes it is the person or company who has "care and control" of the aircraft and will be the name on the CofR. What makes it confusing is that TC calls it the OWNER on the CofR..
T.C. dosen't really care if an investment company "Legally OWNS" the product.
TC needs to have access to the company who's name is on the CofR so they can contact if there is an Airworthiness Directive or other instruction for continuied airworthiness.
PITA
"company A owns the airplane and company B operates it but in this case company A owns it and also flies it but company B has registered it under their operating certificate."
If I'm reading the original post correctly, the airplane is on co B's OC but co A is operating it as a way of getting around getting its own OC. It doesn't sound right to me. Surely co B's personnel should be operating the AC. Is it splitting hairs?
If I'm reading the original post correctly, the airplane is on co B's OC but co A is operating it as a way of getting around getting its own OC. It doesn't sound right to me. Surely co B's personnel should be operating the AC. Is it splitting hairs?
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Dust Devil
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The operator insures the aircraft however the owner is the one the cheque gets cut to in the event a claim is made.BTD wrote:Who would the aircraft be insured to just out of curiousity?
Owner or Operator. ( I would think Operator. Wouldn't it be more likely they be a fault for a claim than the owner?)
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Dust Devil
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Depends on the lease agreement. Most lease agreements state that you will not sub lease the aircraft. If you do sublease the aircraft then you are in breach of contract. Enter lawyers.helinas wrote:Company A owns the airplane outright, A leases it to company B then company B goes ahead and leases it to company C.
Company A just found out that Company B leased it to Company C and Company A has never heard of Company C, WHAT HAPPENS NEXT !
Is anybody in trouble here.
//=S=//
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
A parent's only as good as their dumbest kid. If one wins a Nobel Prize but the other gets robbed by a hooker, you failed
Some good information here.
I have the good forturne to just ask the registration people here at TC and give you their answer.
If I lease the aircraft from you, we will have an agreement. Before you can register that aircraft, you will have to provide TC with a copy of that agreement (so TC knows who has control of the aircraft, AND who owns it).
Regarding sub-leasing... something I did not know: if your lease agreement says you can do it, then you may. If it does not say you can do it, or the agreement does not address that issue, then you will have to provide some paperwork from the owner or transport will not allow the sub-lease (by refusing to re-register the aircraft). Soo... everyone knows, including Transport.
If you have the aircraft registered, you have control over it, and bear any/all responsibility.
Also...
Commerically Registered
The entity must be Canadian, and 75% of the voting interests must be Canadian (I have heard this might change, but the nice people here did not know about that).
Privately Registered
Transport will allow a non-Canadian to own and reister a Canadian aircraft, but the owner must submit a "flight report" indicating that 60% of the flying is done in Canada every 6 months.
I am pretty sure I didn't butcher that too bad.
-TC Guy
I have the good forturne to just ask the registration people here at TC and give you their answer.
If I lease the aircraft from you, we will have an agreement. Before you can register that aircraft, you will have to provide TC with a copy of that agreement (so TC knows who has control of the aircraft, AND who owns it).
Regarding sub-leasing... something I did not know: if your lease agreement says you can do it, then you may. If it does not say you can do it, or the agreement does not address that issue, then you will have to provide some paperwork from the owner or transport will not allow the sub-lease (by refusing to re-register the aircraft). Soo... everyone knows, including Transport.
If you have the aircraft registered, you have control over it, and bear any/all responsibility.
Also...
Commerically Registered
The entity must be Canadian, and 75% of the voting interests must be Canadian (I have heard this might change, but the nice people here did not know about that).
Privately Registered
Transport will allow a non-Canadian to own and reister a Canadian aircraft, but the owner must submit a "flight report" indicating that 60% of the flying is done in Canada every 6 months.
I am pretty sure I didn't butcher that too bad.
-TC Guy
Thanks TC Guy,
In my situtation the company or person that actually owned the aircraft which I will call A did not now that the aircraft was sub-leased from B to C company as company A thought he leased it to only B company.
What does Transport Canada have to say about that?
thanks again
Helinas
In my situtation the company or person that actually owned the aircraft which I will call A did not now that the aircraft was sub-leased from B to C company as company A thought he leased it to only B company.
What does Transport Canada have to say about that?
thanks again
Helinas
