up on one wrote:How I read it is at least 5 minutes prior and when you're grounding 300+ that's around the 40-60nm range

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I always wait for the hand off from centre, of just before starting an approach to contact FSS.

Donald wrote:

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I always wait for the hand off from centre, of just before starting an approach to contact FSS.

This technique can, and has, resulted in pilots getting violated. In my neck of the woods, after one company successfully defended themselves, Center will advise pilots to contact FSS prior to the approach clearance just to meet the legal requirement.

Illya Kuryakin wrote: I've been doing this for a long time. I have NEVER had centre advise me to contact FSS prior to clearing us for an approach. Ever.
I will continue to contact them 5 minutes prior VFR and prior to commencing an approach when IFR.
Illya

CARs 602.104 wrote:602.104 (1) This section applies to persons operating IFR aircraft when approaching or landing at an uncontrolled aerodrome, whether or not the aerodrome lies within an MF area.

(2) The pilot-in-command of an IFR aircraft who intends to conduct an approach to or a landing at an uncontrolled aerodrome shall report

(a) the pilot-in-command’s intentions regarding the operation of the aircraft

(i) five minutes before the estimated time of commencing the approach procedure, stating the estimated time of landing,

(ii) when commencing a circling manoeuvre, and

(iii) as soon as practicable after initiating a missed approach procedure; and

(b) the aircraft’s position

(i) when passing the fix outbound, where the pilot-in-command intends to conduct a procedure turn or, if no procedure turn is intended, when the aircraft first intercepts the final approach course,

(ii) when passing the final approach fix or three minutes before the estimated time of landing where no final approach fix exists, and

(iii) on final approach.

CARs 602.101 wrote:602.101 The pilot-in-command of a VFR aircraft arriving at an uncontrolled aerodrome that lies within an MF area shall report

(a) before entering the MF area and, where circumstances permit, shall do so at least five minutes before entering the area, giving the aircraft’s position, altitude and estimated time of landing and the pilot-in-command’s arrival procedure intentions;

(b) when joining the aerodrome traffic circuit, giving the aircraft’s position in the circuit;

(c) when on the downwind leg, if applicable;

(d) when on final approach; and

(e) when clear of the surface on which the aircraft has landed.

Illya Kuryakin wrote:

Donald wrote:

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I always wait for the hand off from centre, of just before starting an approach to contact FSS.

This technique can, and has, resulted in pilots getting violated. In my neck of the woods, after one company successfully defended themselves, Center will advise pilots to contact FSS prior to the approach clearance just to meet the legal requirement.

I've been doing this for a long time. I have NEVER had centre advise me to contact FSS prior to clearing us for an approach. Ever.
I will continue to contact them 5 minutes prior VFR and prior to commencing an approach when IFR.
Illya

Maynard wrote:Flying into YSB,YYB,YTS

CpnCrunch wrote:

Maynard wrote:Flying into YSB,YYB,YTS

Those are all in (class E) controlled airspace, so the above CAR doesn't apply (it specifically says "in uncontrolled airspace").

As I understand it, if the FSS+MF is in controlled airspace, you just need to talk to them when you're handed over (which will be before entering their CZ). It might obviously make sense to call earlier if it's a sunny day with lots of traffic so you can fit yourself into the traffic flow, but isn't required by law.

CpnCrunch wrote:

Maynard wrote:Flying into YSB,YYB,YTS

Those are all in (class E) controlled airspace, so the above CAR doesn't apply (it specifically says "in uncontrolled airspace").

As I understand it, if the FSS+MF is in controlled airspace, you just need to talk to them when you're handed over (which will be before entering their CZ). It might obviously make sense to call earlier if it's a sunny day with lots of traffic so you can fit yourself into the traffic flow, but isn't required by law.

AuxBatOn wrote:

CpnCrunch wrote:

Maynard wrote:Flying into YSB,YYB,YTS

Those are all in (class E) controlled airspace, so the above CAR doesn't apply (it specifically says "in uncontrolled airspace").

As I understand it, if the FSS+MF is in controlled airspace, you just need to talk to them when you're handed over (which will be before entering their CZ). It might obviously make sense to call earlier if it's a sunny day with lots of traffic so you can fit yourself into the traffic flow, but isn't required by law.

CpnCrunch wrote:

Maynard wrote:Flying into YSB,YYB,YTS

Those are all in (class E) controlled airspace, so the above CAR doesn't apply (it specifically says "in uncontrolled airspace").

As I understand it, if the FSS+MF is in controlled airspace, you just need to talk to them when you're handed over (which will be before entering their CZ). It might obviously make sense to call earlier if it's a sunny day with lots of traffic so you can fit yourself into the traffic flow, but isn't required by law.

CARs say Uncontrolled Aerodrome. Different from Uncontrolled Airspace. Any class E CZ is controlled airspace but uncontrolled aerodrome...

AuxBatOn wrote: CARs say Uncontrolled Aerodrome. Different from Uncontrolled Airspace. Any class E CZ is controlled airspace but uncontrolled aerodrome...

Illya Kuryakin wrote:I admit to not being that bright, but.
The way I read the CARS, an aircraft flying IFR is required to contact the FSS guys on the MF, PRIOR to commencing an approach.
An aircraft operating VFR is required to contact the FSS on the MF five minutes PRIOR to entering the zone?
My question is.....why does almost everybody call 40-60 miles out to announce their impending arrival to FSS (who knows they're coming, and even gives them as traffic) thereby interrupting all communications between FSS and aircraft in the zone, or manoeuvring on their ramp.
I always wait for the hand off from centre, of just before starting an approach to contact FSS.
Am I wrong?
Illya

Illya Kuryakin wrote: I always wait for the hand off from centre, of just before starting an approach to contact FSS.

AuxBatOn wrote:I know people that got their IFR ticket suspended for not doing the 5 mins calls. Save yourself some heartache and give them a quick call 5 minutes before the approach. It doesn't really cost you anything, it keeps everybody happy but more importantly, keeps everybody informed on your intentions.

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Okay, so I guess my real question is WHY?
Every FSS knows you're inbound. They have a strip on you. They even give you as traffic to other aircraft, even BEFORE you inform them of your presence. So why is this "warning, I'm inbound, hide the women and children" call even a requirement?
I suspect this came from some space dork in Ottawa to justify his existence.
Seriously. WTF? It's silly. Adds nothing to safety and ties up frequencies.
Illya

Illya Kuryakin wrote:Okay, so I guess my real question is WHY?