New hire bids

[flying4dollars]

So you’re saying that roughly 50% is OTS. And someone who is starting their career can choose between non jazz or jazz to get to AC. Noted

Yes, that's how math works What I'm saying is the Jazz roster represents more than a slow trickle as you stated.

Just so there's no misinformation

Yet we have been told they are going to slow it down to half of wht they were taking, which is way less than the required. And there is a good chance they will stop again in the summer. In other words, AC will do whatever they want whenever they want, and what ever they feel is in the best interest, regardless of any contract.

Just so there is no misinformation.

Whatever you've been told or whatever AC will or won't do is out of my control. All I'm doing is stating a fact, not a rumor. Looking at the new hire bios, at least half of every class this year are coming from Jazz.

[SmokinJoe]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

[canadian_aviator_4]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

[cdnavater]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

[truedude]

For the PMA, AC is behind hiring, for 2022 what 300 pilots from Jazz? For 2023 they are supposed to add those 300 pilots to this years “quota”. AC will not hit those numbers. AC will reduce hiring from Jazz this summer which will put them further behind.
You need to stay at Jazz for 2 years before you “qualify”. If you go elsewhere, you are not bound by the two years.
AC always slows hiring in the summer and holidays (Christmas) due to training pilot availability/vacation/busy flying.
AC stopped hiring from Jazz on a whim for what 2-3 months last year, even though they were behind on their “quota”, but kept on hiring from other companies.

So I really don’t understand why, if your goal is AC, you would come to Jazz and handicap yourself by being here. They will start and stop hiring from Jazz to protect their own operation and the pilots who hoped for a quick road to AC will sit and suffer while pilots at other airlines keep getting hired at AC.

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

Let's be clear, what Jazz pays its F/Os is down right criminal. It is disgustingly low, with 1900 operators paying more. We have people living pay check to pay check having to use prediams to supplement their crap pay. That isn't okay. And when you add the amount of deductions, it is disgusting.

As for our top pay, Porter now pays their E2 guys around 200 at the top. And since that is who we are losing pilots too, that is who we need to match.

Airline management has spent decades bringing down our wages and it is time to correct that. But they won't give it up easily. We need to support each other and essentially shove the reality of higher wages down management's throat until they cough up money. And I am prepared to watch Jazz go into bankruptcy before we accept anything less than what we are worth. They don't get to pick and choose where they want to fix things.

[cdnavater]

Suffer from both slowest path to ac and industry worst pay. No upside coming here at the moment.

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

Let's be clear, what Jazz pays its F/Os is down right criminal. It is disgustingly low, with 1900 operators paying more. We have people living pay check to pay check having to use prediams to supplement their crap pay. That isn't okay. And when you add the amount of deductions, it is disgusting.

As for our top pay, Porter now pays their E2 guys around 200 at the top. And since that is who we are losing pilots too, that is who we need to match.

Airline management has spent decades bringing down our wages and it is time to correct that. But they won't give it up easily. We need to support each other and essentially shove the reality of higher wages down management's throat until they cough up money. And I am prepared to watch Jazz go into bankruptcy before we accept anything less than what we are worth. They don't get to pick and choose where they want to fix things.

It’s good to be passionate and even a little angry, if we are to compare ourselves to Porter, since we fly Q400s, how do we compare to that pay?
Yes, we are losing pilots to Porter but we are also losing them to Flair and others and Porters E2 is more comparable to the AC A220, same seats same mission capability, we lose pilots to AC(not as many as should be) why aren’t we being paid what AC pilots are being paid?
Answer, because we have smaller airplanes and can’t generate the same revenue, really it is that simple and as for the 1900 jobs paying more, guess what, if they didn’t have to they wouldn’t, that is a thousand percent guaranteed!
Lastly and I know you don’t want to hear this, it’s not criminal to offer a wage that is below industry standard, it’s only there because pilots keep taking these jobs. If they took better paying jobs, and Jazz had zero applicants, they would either do something about it or not, with the associated ramifications of that decision, that is the sad truth about it.
Discouraging pilots from coming here is great but I disagree with misinformation or exaggeration, give them facts and if they decide to come anyway, they do so with eyes open!

[truedude]

Let’s be factual here or prove your statement with credible information, it is not the industry worts pay, it might be the lowest starting regional pay but not that far off from the others and the pension contribution is higher than most if not all bringing the total compensation up to basically even. I can guarantee no other regional pays as much on the top end, prove I’m wrong

Let's be clear, what Jazz pays its F/Os is down right criminal. It is disgustingly low, with 1900 operators paying more. We have people living pay check to pay check having to use prediams to supplement their crap pay. That isn't okay. And when you add the amount of deductions, it is disgusting.

As for our top pay, Porter now pays their E2 guys around 200 at the top. And since that is who we are losing pilots too, that is who we need to match.

Airline management has spent decades bringing down our wages and it is time to correct that. But they won't give it up easily. We need to support each other and essentially shove the reality of higher wages down management's throat until they cough up money. And I am prepared to watch Jazz go into bankruptcy before we accept anything less than what we are worth. They don't get to pick and choose where they want to fix things.

It’s good to be passionate and even a little angry, if we are to compare ourselves to Porter, since we fly Q400s, how do we compare to that pay?
Yes, we are losing pilots to Porter but we are also losing them to Flair and others and Porters E2 is more comparable to the AC A220, same seats same mission capability, we lose pilots to AC(not as many as should be) why aren’t we being paid what AC pilots are being paid?
Answer, because we have smaller airplanes and can’t generate the same revenue, really it is that simple and as for the 1900 jobs paying more, guess what, if they didn’t have to they wouldn’t, that is a thousand percent guaranteed!
Lastly and I know you don’t want to hear this, it’s not criminal to offer a wage that is below industry standard, it’s only there because pilots keep taking these jobs. If they took better paying jobs, and Jazz had zero applicants, they would either do something about it or not, with the associated ramifications of that decision, that is the sad truth about it.
Discouraging pilots from coming here is great but I disagree with misinformation or exaggeration, give them facts and if they decide to come anyway, they do so with eyes open!

Our main problem is attracting anyone capable of being a Captain. We need to pay what others are paying to attract those people. We aren't, and hence why we are flying 14 - 16% less this summer than last. And will continue to shrink. And they will shrink until they pay. And it doesn't matter how many seats we have.

And if AC is the goal, people should go anywhere but here.

[cdnavater]

Let's be clear, what Jazz pays its F/Os is down right criminal. It is disgustingly low, with 1900 operators paying more. We have people living pay check to pay check having to use prediams to supplement their crap pay. That isn't okay. And when you add the amount of deductions, it is disgusting.

As for our top pay, Porter now pays their E2 guys around 200 at the top. And since that is who we are losing pilots too, that is who we need to match.

Airline management has spent decades bringing down our wages and it is time to correct that. But they won't give it up easily. We need to support each other and essentially shove the reality of higher wages down management's throat until they cough up money. And I am prepared to watch Jazz go into bankruptcy before we accept anything less than what we are worth. They don't get to pick and choose where they want to fix things.

It’s good to be passionate and even a little angry, if we are to compare ourselves to Porter, since we fly Q400s, how do we compare to that pay?
Yes, we are losing pilots to Porter but we are also losing them to Flair and others and Porters E2 is more comparable to the AC A220, same seats same mission capability, we lose pilots to AC(not as many as should be) why aren’t we being paid what AC pilots are being paid?
Answer, because we have smaller airplanes and can’t generate the same revenue, really it is that simple and as for the 1900 jobs paying more, guess what, if they didn’t have to they wouldn’t, that is a thousand percent guaranteed!
Lastly and I know you don’t want to hear this, it’s not criminal to offer a wage that is below industry standard, it’s only there because pilots keep taking these jobs. If they took better paying jobs, and Jazz had zero applicants, they would either do something about it or not, with the associated ramifications of that decision, that is the sad truth about it.
Discouraging pilots from coming here is great but I disagree with misinformation or exaggeration, give them facts and if they decide to come anyway, they do so with eyes open!

Our main problem is attracting anyone capable of being a Captain. We need to pay what others are paying to attract those people. We aren't, and hence why we are flying 14 - 16% less this summer than last. And will continue to shrink. And they will shrink until they pay. And it doesn't matter how many seats we have.

And if AC is the goal, people should go anywhere but here.

Yes, I agree but you are not considering an important fact, Jazz has shrunk the margins over the years with every CPA renegotiation and cannot now afford to pay what needs to be paid. This would have to come from AC in the form of a renegotiation on the mark up, which they appear to have zero interest in doing, for reasons we can only guess.

[truedude]

It’s good to be passionate and even a little angry, if we are to compare ourselves to Porter, since we fly Q400s, how do we compare to that pay?
Yes, we are losing pilots to Porter but we are also losing them to Flair and others and Porters E2 is more comparable to the AC A220, same seats same mission capability, we lose pilots to AC(not as many as should be) why aren’t we being paid what AC pilots are being paid?
Answer, because we have smaller airplanes and can’t generate the same revenue, really it is that simple and as for the 1900 jobs paying more, guess what, if they didn’t have to they wouldn’t, that is a thousand percent guaranteed!
Lastly and I know you don’t want to hear this, it’s not criminal to offer a wage that is below industry standard, it’s only there because pilots keep taking these jobs. If they took better paying jobs, and Jazz had zero applicants, they would either do something about it or not, with the associated ramifications of that decision, that is the sad truth about it.
Discouraging pilots from coming here is great but I disagree with misinformation or exaggeration, give them facts and if they decide to come anyway, they do so with eyes open!

Our main problem is attracting anyone capable of being a Captain. We need to pay what others are paying to attract those people. We aren't, and hence why we are flying 14 - 16% less this summer than last. And will continue to shrink. And they will shrink until they pay. And it doesn't matter how many seats we have.

And if AC is the goal, people should go anywhere but here.

Yes, I agree but you are not considering an important fact, Jazz has shrunk the margins over the years with every CPA renegotiation and cannot now afford to pay what needs to be paid. This would have to come from AC in the form of a renegotiation on the mark up, which they appear to have zero interest in doing, for reasons we can only guess.

I know exactly why Jazz can't afford to pay more; because by design, Chorus was created to ensure all profit (i.e. lease payments) are funneled away, to ensure Jazz can always argue they have no money. And they will do just that when the F/As go into contract talks.

But I don't care where the money comes from. If it is Jazz; or chorus because they don't want to get sued by AC for failure to maintain the CPA; or JR retirement fund. I could care less where the money comes from. But I support the union in forcing the company to abide by the contract they wanted until either they cough up the money, or the company collapses under the weight of the dysfunction failing to do so will exert.

We need a proper rate reset to recoup everything taken in the last 20 years, in line with what is happening south of the border. Until then, we sit back and watch it all fall apart while doing our jobs to the best we can as per the collective agreement.

[cdnavater]

Our main problem is attracting anyone capable of being a Captain. We need to pay what others are paying to attract those people. We aren't, and hence why we are flying 14 - 16% less this summer than last. And will continue to shrink. And they will shrink until they pay. And it doesn't matter how many seats we have.

And if AC is the goal, people should go anywhere but here.

Yes, I agree but you are not considering an important fact, Jazz has shrunk the margins over the years with every CPA renegotiation and cannot now afford to pay what needs to be paid. This would have to come from AC in the form of a renegotiation on the mark up, which they appear to have zero interest in doing, for reasons we can only guess.

I know exactly why Jazz can't afford to pay more; because by design, Chorus was created to ensure all profit (i.e. lease payments) are funneled away, to ensure Jazz can always argue they have no money. And they will do just that when the F/As go into contract talks.

But I don't care where the money comes from. If it is Jazz; or chorus because they don't want to get sued by AC for failure to maintain the CPA; or JR retirement fund. I could care less where the money comes from. But I support the union in forcing the company to abide by the contract they wanted until either they cough up the money, or the company collapses under the weight of the dysfunction failing to do so will exert.

We need a proper rate reset to recoup everything taken in the last 20 years, in line with what is happening south of the border. Until then, we sit back and watch it all fall apart while doing our jobs to the best we can as per the collective agreement.

I completely agree!

[truedude]

I also think we should start a gofundme for Westjet pilots when they go on strike, so Westjet/Onex along with the rest of the industry understand they aren't just up agaisnt one pilot group, but all pilots. And we are tired, pissed off, and done with all their millions of excuses as to why they can't properly compensate us. And we simply won't stand for it anymore.

[Malfunction]

I like this idea. I'd donate

[CaptDukeNukem]

I like this idea. I'd donate

Yea me too.

[capt_Z]

I think it went well, but it’s been 2 days and no calls yet. Getting anxious tbh

After HR Interview I've heard 1-3 days on average if they select. 3-5 weeks if PFOed.

Hopefully u should get a reply by tomorrow.

Best of LUCK

The HR said 5-10 business days to expect a reply. I really hope I don’t get a PFod. That’s why I’m getting anxious because it’s day 2 now lol

Any response?

[gopherblack]

After HR Interview I've heard 1-3 days on average if they select. 3-5 weeks if PFOed.

Hopefully u should get a reply by tomorrow.

Best of LUCK

The HR said 5-10 business days to expect a reply. I really hope I don’t get a PFod. That’s why I’m getting anxious because it’s day 2 now lol

Any response?

Hey man, negative. I'm losing all hope now. I think the PFO is coming, did my interview on the 18th and its been 4 business days since.

What are your thoughts? Looking bleak?

[canadian_aviator_4]

The HR said 5-10 business days to expect a reply. I really hope I don’t get a PFod. That’s why I’m getting anxious because it’s day 2 now lol

Any response?

Hey man, negative. I'm losing all hope now. I think the PFO is coming, did my interview on the 18th and its been 4 business days since.

What are your thoughts? Looking bleak?

Did you apply to encore? Higher starting pay and much quicker path to AC.

[gopherblack]

Any response?

Hey man, negative. I'm losing all hope now. I think the PFO is coming, did my interview on the 18th and its been 4 business days since.

What are your thoughts? Looking bleak?

Did you apply to encore? Higher starting pay and much quicker path to AC.

Hey, I saw your earlier response as well before it got removed, my colleagues who go into jazz after interview were called 1-2 days after the interview, however, that was 3 months ago. Maybe sim is too booked and they're waiting to call. Is the 3 month wait you referred to is perhaps after completing all the steps?

I applied to encore and porter as well but no dice yet.

[yhz41]

Hey man, negative. I'm losing all hope now. I think the PFO is coming, did my interview on the 18th and its been 4 business days since.

What are your thoughts? Looking bleak?

Did you apply to encore? Higher starting pay and much quicker path to AC.

Hey, I saw your earlier response as well before it got removed, my colleagues who go into jazz after interview were called 1-2 days after the interview, however, that was 3 months ago. Maybe sim is too booked and they're waiting to call. Is the 3 month wait you referred to is perhaps after completing all the steps?

I applied to encore and porter as well but no dice yet.

You're not out til you're out so just hang in there.

[canadian_aviator_4]

Hey man, negative. I'm losing all hope now. I think the PFO is coming, did my interview on the 18th and its been 4 business days since.

What are your thoughts? Looking bleak?

Did you apply to encore? Higher starting pay and much quicker path to AC.

Hey, I saw your earlier response as well before it got removed, my colleagues who go into jazz after interview were called 1-2 days after the interview, however, that was 3 months ago. Maybe sim is too booked and they're waiting to call. Is the 3 month wait you referred to is perhaps after completing all the steps?

I applied to encore and porter as well but no dice yet.

3 month wait is Jazz to AC. I accidentally posted here.

[gopherblack]

Did you apply to encore? Higher starting pay and much quicker path to AC.

Hey, I saw your earlier response as well before it got removed, my colleagues who go into jazz after interview were called 1-2 days after the interview, however, that was 3 months ago. Maybe sim is too booked and they're waiting to call. Is the 3 month wait you referred to is perhaps after completing all the steps?

I applied to encore and porter as well but no dice yet.

3 month wait is Jazz to AC. I accidentally posted here.

Okay, thanks for the reply.