ATPL Application

[Samsquamch]

Does Transport require your logbook to be stamped by your Chief Pilot before submitting your ATPL application?

[Kardow]

No. I asked them the question before applying in September and they said it is not required.

And indeed, I got approved without my hours certified by my Chief Pilot.

[maturepilot83]

Does Transport require your logbook to be stamped by your Chief Pilot before submitting your ATPL application?

Get your hours certified nonetheless.

[maturepilot83]

Does Transport require your logbook to be stamped by your Chief Pilot before submitting your ATPL application?

Get your hours certified nonetheless.

[NotDirty!]

While TC doesn't require it, some companies (including Big Red) want to see it. I suppose not being able to get your CP to sign off might be a red flag...

[C-GKNT]

Does Transport require your logbook to be stamped by your Chief Pilot before submitting your ATPL application?

Get your hours certified nonetheless.

I'm just curious...TC has enough rules already, why make up more and do this even though it is not required?

I wrote "I certified these hours to be true and correct" and signed it myself. The previous time my logbook was certified by another person was from my flight school after my PPL some 25 years before my ATPL application.

Glenn

[Thorjones]

I called very recently and was told it had to be certified by my CP. Applying in Ontario.

[JBI]

I submitted my log book in Jan 2016 in the Pacific region without a CP sign off of my most recent hours (but with a CP sign off from previous hours.

At the time, I was hoping to get the application process started, but my CP was away on holidays. I spoke with the TC official who would be reviewing my logbook prior to submitting my application and asked if it was necessary. They indicated that it was not, but that they do like to see hours certified by a CP - helps add a layer of authenticity to any hours that they may have questions/queries about.

I opted to submit my log book without the CP's signature to get the process started and was granted my ATPL.

[maturepilot83]

Does Transport require your logbook to be stamped by your Chief Pilot before submitting your ATPL application?

Get your hours certified nonetheless.

I'm just curious...TC has enough rules already, why make up more and do this even though it is not required?

I wrote "I certified these hours to be true and correct" and signed it myself. The previous time my logbook was certified by another person was from my flight school after my PPL some 25 years before my ATPL application.

Glenn

Glenn,

Don't you think getting those hours certified is a valuable indication to your employers that all your hard earned hours are legitimate? Although not officially required, it doesn't hurt at all to get that stamp in your logbook. I was personally questioned about the legitimacy of my hours. Boy, how good did it feel to pull out that logbook and point to that professional looking stamp with a signature and someone's AA #. The Class 1 instructor who questioned those hours shut up and moved on.

Personally, I worked my ass off for those hours ($$). Taking the extra step to get a simple stamp and signature is no effort at all, rules or no rules.

[Oxi]

Get your hours certified nonetheless.

I'm just curious...TC has enough rules already, why make up more and do this even though it is not required?

I wrote "I certified these hours to be true and correct" and signed it myself. The previous time my logbook was certified by another person was from my flight school after my PPL some 25 years before my ATPL application.

Glenn

Glenn,

Don't you think getting those hours certified is a valuable indication to your employers that all your hard earned hours are legitimate? Although not officially required, it doesn't hurt at all to get that stamp in your logbook. I was personally questioned about the legitimacy of my hours. Boy, how good did it feel to pull out that logbook and point to that professional looking stamp with a signature and someone's AA #. The Class 1 instructor who questioned those hours shut up and moved on.

Personally, I worked my ass off for those hours ($$). Taking the extra step to get a simple stamp and signature is no effort at all, rules or no rules.

You were questioned by a flight instructor... congratulations, he/she isn't TC.
You even say it yourself "professional looking", looks good but not worth a cent nor in the CARs. If someone is questioning your hours because of the company then what good would the CP of the company do in help legitimizing said hours?

[skypirate88]

I wasn't required to have my hours certified. I happened to have a stamp for a few of them, but not enough for the ATPL application. Why would you need to have them certified anyways? Can you not just sign a affidavit saying you have the required hours?

[maturepilot83]

I'm just curious...TC has enough rules already, why make up more and do this even though it is not required?

I wrote "I certified these hours to be true and correct" and signed it myself. The previous time my logbook was certified by another person was from my flight school after my PPL some 25 years before my ATPL application.

Glenn

Glenn,

Don't you think getting those hours certified is a valuable indication to your employers that all your hard earned hours are legitimate? Although not officially required, it doesn't hurt at all to get that stamp in your logbook. I was personally questioned about the legitimacy of my hours. Boy, how good did it feel to pull out that logbook and point to that professional looking stamp with a signature and someone's AA #. The Class 1 instructor who questioned those hours shut up and moved on.

Personally, I worked my ass off for those hours ($$). Taking the extra step to get a simple stamp and signature is no effort at all, rules or no rules.

You were questioned by a flight instructor... congratulations, he/she isn't TC.
You even say it yourself "professional looking", looks good but not worth a cent nor in the CARs. If someone is questioning your hours because of the company then what good would the CP of the company do in help legitimizing said hours?

You bring a valid point. I was always told to get them certified, even by an airline pilot but from what I'm reading in this thread it doesn't appear to make a difference. A learning opportunity for me. Thank you.

[NotDirty!]

You bring a valid point. I was always told to get them certified, even by an airline pilot but from what I'm reading in this thread it doesn't appear to make a difference. A learning opportunity for me. Thank you.

What has been said above is correct; you can self certify your hours and TC will still sign off your ATPL. What they do need, if you have SIC time in an aircraft that is certified single pilot, is a statement from your CP/Ops Mgr stating that your FO time was done using multi crew SOPs, etc. It doesn't seem to matter if they know well that every other applicant who has FO hours on a King Air from company X has had the same letter, they need one with your file number on it!

But once again, I will reiterate: while TC doesn't need to see your time certified by your company, if you want to work for Air Canada at some point in the future (or some other airlines, I'm sure), they want to see times certified by the company. This is always much easier to do while the company is still in business, rather than sitting in an interview 5-10 years from now, trying to explain that you didn't feel like getting your hours certified at the time, and there's no way to get them certified now because the company hasn't existed for ages.

[Cat Driver]

Here is another slant on the value of a personal log book.

Over the decades I was in management in aviation up to and including 705 operations in Canada I never once looked inside a job applicants log book.

I interviewed them.

Flew with them.

And then asked them to give me the names of all their previous employers.

Whether or not I hired them depended on what their previous employers said.

[feel-x]

I called very recently and was told it had to be certified by my CP. Applying in Ontario.

Just Called this morning (YUL), she told me CP letter is not required because for TC the pilot is responsible and trustworthy with his signature only.
She told me to double check those things:
-Every page of your logbook should have the page total and total plus pilot signature
-Crosscountry time should be well define with each point (could be a cie route or point in the remark section) [up to the minimum required by TC]
-If your A/C is single pilot you need a letter from your CP or your cie that you are flying 2 crew according to your COM [I asked her about the 1900D and she told me I don't need that letter since I have a PPC and type rating but personnaly I will bring that letter anyway]
-If you have an e-log, print it with total on each page + signature

Looks like depending who you talk to and where you call you will have different answers...

On a personal note, I always ask my CP/ops manager/school/instructor/incharge ..... to sign my hours, some cie will require that, TC might change their mind at some point..

Good luck with the application

[C-GKNT]

Glenn,

Don't you think getting those hours certified is a valuable indication to your employers that all your hard earned hours are legitimate? Although not officially required, it doesn't hurt at all to get that stamp in your logbook. I was personally questioned about the legitimacy of my hours. Boy, how good did it feel to pull out that logbook and point to that professional looking stamp with a signature and someone's AA #. The Class 1 instructor who questioned those hours shut up and moved on.

Personally, I worked my ass off for those hours ($$). Taking the extra step to get a simple stamp and signature is no effort at all, rules or no rules.

Mature,

I was only commenting regarding the ATPL application. My point was that TC has enough hoops and hurdles for us to jump through without us pilots inventing extra ones. I fully expected some type of question from TC regarding the self-certification of my hours but they accepted it without a problem.

As some others have mentioned, certifying your hours might have value for future employment but as I have never been employed as a pilot, I can't comment on that. Not only did I work my ass off for my hours, I paid for every single one myself. I kind of wished I had skipped the commercial flight test, I could have gotten a Private ATPL*

Glenn

*Interestingly a CPL is NOT a requirement for an ATPL

[ThatArmyGuy]

What has been said above is correct; you can self certify your hours and TC will still sign off your ATPL. What they do need, if you have SIC time in an aircraft that is certified single pilot, is a statement from your CP/Ops Mgr stating that your FO time was done using multi crew SOPs, etc.

But once again, I will reiterate: while TC doesn't need to see your time certified by your company, if you want to work for Air Canada at some point in the future (or some other airlines, I'm sure), they want to see times certified by the company. This is always much easier to do while the company is still in business, rather than sitting in an interview 5-10 years from now, trying to explain that you didn't feel like getting your hours certified at the time, and there's no way to get them certified now because the company hasn't existed for ages.

+1 to submitting a letter from your CP for SIC hrs on single pilot certified that are typically run as a two-crew environment like DHC6 or BE20s.

[BTD]

*Interestingly a CPL is NOT a requirement for an ATPL

True. However according to the regs you must meet the requirements of a cpl. Therefore, flight and written test. But you could skip applying for it and go straight to the atpl.

[C-GKNT]

*Interestingly a CPL is NOT a requirement for an ATPL

True. However according to the regs you must meet the requirements of a cpl. Therefore, flight and written test. But you could skip applying for it and go straight to the atpl.

CARS 421.34 Section 4 ATPL requirements-Experience

An applicant shall have met the training requirements for the issue of a Commercial Pilot Licence...

It doesn't say "requirements", it specifically says "TRAINING requirements". The word "training" could easily have been omitted in which case I would agree with you. A test may well be the end goal of training but I think they are different so my interpretation of the CARS is that the CPL flight/written are not requirements for an ATPL.

They could just have easily have written that you must HAVE a CPL. Gotta love the CARS, who writes this stuff anyway?

Glenn