RCAF

[piloterror]

DELETED

[Juggs]

I belive that you can go helicopter if you have glasses. Your best bet would be to talk to recruiting though.

I believe (and again this is what I believe) that navigator time is not that valuable on the civilian side of flying. There aren't a great deal of aircraft that use the navigator. (Generally -727 operators )

[cyyz]

Navigator time probably not, best bet to check CARS and call TC, BUT it counts in Europe, 1/5th.

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

Navigator time does not count for jack. +50 grand/year with full benefits once trained probably beats what you could expect as an instructor, however you would likely miss being at the controls. Once you're in the Forces, you may be able to side-step the 20/20 uncorrected requirement.

[desksgo]

I belive that you can go helicopter if you have glasses. Your best bet would be to talk to recruiting though.

You may be right, but I don't think so. From what I have been told flight standards are the same regardless of whirrly bird or straightamawing.

PM gryphon. He loves to help people out with this stuff and he's got cool pictures.

[Pugster]

I believe that WJ still counts half of your time sitting sideways towards meeting their minimum requirements for total time. At least they were doing that with KFC SO's the last time I talked to a former SO-now WJ-friend.

Not sure if the military stuff will count as well...but I don't see why not.

Pugster

[Scuba_Steve]

I recently enquired about getting into the forces (I have glasses) I heard a rumour they had dropped the un corrected 20/20 requirment. But that is not the case, the 'back door' as far as I can tell is to already be an officer in the forces and do a component transfer into the airforce as a pilot, I was a NCO in the army at the time, so it would have required my going officer then doing said transfer. Talk to your recruiter there may be a way yet to get you into a pilots seat.

This info is about 2 years old things may have changed, and I'm probably correct assuming it also is subject to change depending on the recruiter you speak to.

[ch135146]

After your release from the CF, navigator time on a resume will help greatly in obtaining a job in the exciting and high paying world of Directional Consultants.

[FlyInverted]

First you should know that the job title "air navigator" is a bit of a misnomer. Only three platforms currently require air navs, 4 on the Aurora's, one on the Herc and one on the Sea King. In fact, the only true navigation job is on the Herc as all the other positions really have nothing to do with navigation at all. The positions on the Auroras deal with communications and sub hunting as does the TACO position on a Sea King. You can also forget about having your own window unless you get on a Herc. As for time, it's completely useless on civy street hence the fact that the CF is having a hard time recruiting navigators in the first place. The pay however is very good and after three or so years you can expect to make upwards of $70,000/a. Don't forget though that you won't see an airplane for at least a year after enrollment or possibly even longer. You also have to pass Basic Officer Training which can either be fairly easy or just about kill you depending on the instructors at the time. Air Nav is not a bad career choice if you want to be in the aviation environment and get the chance to do cool stuff that none of your other aviation peers will ever get to experience. If however you want to get your hands on the yoke you may want to consider other options.

[FlyInverted]

And yes, there is NO back door into becoming a pilot in the CF. Don't even consider joining with the intention of switching over sometime down the road. The visual accuity standards will remain the same, the only place they make an exception is for previously trained CF pilots.

[32a]

The Herc's FMS navigation (2 INUs/2 GPSs plus standard navaids) is designed around a two-pilot operation. Flightplanning is also electronic. Hercs carry ANAVs. The Buffalo carries standard navaids, two GPSs, a sextant, and a navigator. ANAVs are basically flight planners and mission specialists. They do hold a lot of high air force ranks nowadays due to the pilot exodus to the airlines last decade.

Piloterror, think hard before deciding. If you want to speak to CF navigators and even those who have crosstrained to pilot, PM me and I'll try set you up. Personally, if I had the choice, I wouldn't want a flying career watching two clowns sitting in front of me controlling my destiny.

[groundpilot]

FlyInverted,

Your statement about the visual acuity is incorrect. There are qualified air navigators (a handful) that are in the pilot training system with glasses. You can get the MOC transfer to pilot even with glasses although it is rare. You still need V2 (less than 20/20 but not terribly bad eyes)

[monkeyspankmasterflex]

They do hold a lot of high air force ranks nowadays due to the pilot exodus to the airlines last decade.

Groundpilot/32a:
With AC hiring spooling up again, has the aformentioned exodus started up again?

[FlyInverted]

Groundpilot,

Hah, yes I think I may stand corrected on that one. It's funny that this post came up today as just this morning I was reviewing the Flight Surgeon air crew medical req's. On paper there is officially no special circumstance for ANAV's who fall below V1 to VOT to pilot. The only leeway they have that's officially in writing is for former military trained pilots who have decided to re-enroll. I suspect however that you are indeed correct and they address ANAV's (aircrew) possibly under the same criteria. The point being is it's still extremely difficult to make it to pilot if you are trying to circumvent the normal channels due to poor eye-sight. This is also not to mention the fact that a member will not normally be elligible for an occupational transfer for at least the first 5 to 6 six years of their career.

[groundpilot]

No the exodus as you call has not really started.

Most CF pilots are happy where they are and view Air Canada as a bit of a risk compared to staying in. There are quite a few ex-Air Canada re-enrolled pilots still here that are still deciding whether to return to the airlines. They still hold their senority so they are in no rush to get back.

[TheCheez]

There's a few at my office that are planning on heading back, I wouldn't call it an exodus but if even 25-50 pilots head for AC when they get handed a ground tour it will be a significant problem.

[Blakey]

Just in case you think you have discovered a back door here - DO NOT HAVE LASER SURGERY IN ORDER TO MEET THE PILOT STANDARD. This is specifically prohibited and will automatically exclude you from pilot selection.

[Federally]

I've read on the 'Army.ca' Forum that AirNav are able to have refractive surgury??? Quote from Army.ca
"Currently there are (according to the Med staff) only two trades that are NOT available to persons having had laser surgery, they are PILOT, and COMBAT DIVER. I was informed this is due to the pressures on the eye at these two pretty extreme MOCS. After talking to 3 very credible surgeons, the omission of these two jobs doesn't make a whole lot of sense due to the fact that refractive surgery does not change the structural integrity of the eye what so ever. When laser eye surgery first came out the CF did not recognize it at all, in fact you could be found unfit if you had had it done prior to applying. Of coarse they had no solid research on the subject as it was a new technology. Now they not only will allow it, but many of the black listed MOCs are now eligible (Air Navigator). Maybe one day Pilots will be allowed as well."
Anyone care to comment, would like to hear if this is the Air Force's actual stand on vision requirements not meeting V2 (for AirNav).
Thanks in advance

[FlyInverted]

The vision requirement for ANAV is V3, and yes, laser eye surgery is acceptable.

[Federally]

Thanks for the reply, I appriciate it.