perimeter mishap

[sunk]

Wondering how many metros were damaged in the latest mishap? Was the one doing the run up and hit the tug a write off?

[Jean-Pierre]

What was the temperature?

[plhought]

I'm very curious aboot this. I checked the ol' CADORS but nothing yet (maybe not recorded as airplane isn't 'operating' per-sae"

Don't be lazy, take the tug and tow bar off boys. Unless you're running up a Twin Otter on beaching-gear then maybe keep the tug attached.

[Maynard]

Wondering how many metros were damaged in the latest mishap? Was the one doing the run up and hit the tug a write off?

Care to explain the mishap?

[plhought]

Scuttlebutt says bud doing high power run (obviously not in a decent run-up area if other planes are close about), slick surface with tug and towbar attached. Plane moves forward, still-connected tow bar swings tug around into engine/prop. Bits of prop fly and find new homes in other nearby airplanes.

[Jim Flint]

Was it pilot or AME?

[oldtimer]

Not been there nor have I seen pictures but using the SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) method, if the runup was not done in the "proper run up area" it was because the pilot and/or AME were doing the required engine checks that must be done @ 100% RPM but with the propellers still on the start locks. To taxi, the props have to be taken off the start locks. To re-engage the locks, the engine(s) have to be shut down and then restarted. The AFM and Company checklists should have a caution whereby there is a slight chance the start locks could release during the run up checks, in which case the engine checks would have to cease or the engines would have to be shut down and restarted. That is usually the reason the runup is done where the airplane is parked. There is no propwash behind the airplane nor any forward thrust, just lots of noise.

[plhought]

Just because you need to do a run on the locks is not an excuse to not have the aircraft properly 'secured' or positioned for a run.

There's pictures floating-around the AME text-messaging world. The tug did not just 'drift' into the plane...ill tell ya that. He smoked 'er good 'der bye.

100% RPM with the props still on the locks isn't going to make that much thrust with brakes on to scoot ya along the pavement unless it's pretty contaminated - in which case a decent set of chocks or metal grating is in order.

I had no problem taxing around a Turbo-Commander with the props still on the locks anyways. Not sure bout the Metro-Garretts though.

The Tug & Tow bar is not a smart way to 'secure' an aircraft during ground runs.

Besides, big woop if you take the props off the locks to go taxi to a nice clear holding bay or run-up area. Taxi to run up area, shut down the engine, wait a bit, start it up again. Do your runs. What's the big f-in' deal? Even if you f it up putting it back on the locks you still have the alternate pump to unfeather the prop on to the locks. You can even keep the other engine going to help with the start.

I'm sorry, this kind of accident is nothing more than a feeble attempt to save a couple minutes there setting up chocks...another couple minutes here to disconnect towbar....laziness.

I have no time for AME's who are too lazy to take the time to properly configure and position an aircraft for a run-up. Guys out there are too afraid to taxi the aircraft, too afraid to talk on the radio, or too afraid to liaise with the airport. It's down-right laziness and peeves me off.

If you need to go make serious noise and make power - take the Freakin' time to do it right for f sakes.

It doesn't help that the glass-palaces (ie: Fancy AME schools) basically teach the kid to be terrified of the ruddy airplane and give them f-all in experience actually taxing/running said aircraft. Yay, I'm really happy you have experience running up a Harvard. I'm sure that was great fun. But I need you to help me get this King-Air rigged dammit.

[wirez]

Pictures attached......

[digits_]

I think one of those prop blades needs dressing.

[GyvAir]

If one prop got into the tug, what did the other one contact? Is the tug low enough to have been batted under the fuselage over to the other prop?

[digits_]

If one prop got into the tug, what did the other one contact? Is the tug low enough to have been batted under the fuselage over to the other prop?

Rumours say the cockpit of another metro...

[ZBBYLW]

What happened at PAG? I know that incidents can happen anywhere but I've heard lots that is disappointing. Chief Pilots pushing pilots out the door, mx being sub standard, grounding by TC?

When I was there they were always above board. Always got the job done right and safety as they wanted to stay in business for another 50 years. Sounds like that is changing....

[fish4life]

What happened at PAG? I know that incidents can happen anywhere but I've heard lots that is disappointing. Chief Pilots pushing pilots out the door, mx being sub standard, grounding by TC?

When I was there they were always above board. Always got the job done right and safety as they wanted to stay in business for another 50 years. Sounds like that is changing....

EIC. They are doing the same thing to Calm Air... take this as a warning PAL folk.

[AME1983]

That's going to be expensive

[ninjacrumb]

Come on

That can be easily dressed out

[5x5]

EIC. They are doing the same thing to Calm Air... take this as a warning PAL folk.

According to EIC's website they have owned Perimeter since 2004. Not sure you can blame them any more than any companies management that can perhaps change over 13 years. What specifically do you know about the supposed deficiencies that are present at EIC? Kind of a "drive-by" slagging comment, don't you think?

[mbav8r]

Having spoke to different pilots at different EIC owned companies, the theme seems to be the same, "cut costs!" I've been told they keep putting pressure on the budget as any big corporations do, but I've been told they are aggressive and those who won't tow the company line won't last, all this is hearsay but from more than one source.
This particular event, I don't think budget has anything to do with it, it's about choices and this seems to be a poor choice that will cost a good chunk of change!

[fish4life]

EIC. They are doing the same thing to Calm Air... take this as a warning PAL folk.

According to EIC's website they have owned Perimeter since 2004. Not sure you can blame them any more than any companies management that can perhaps change over 13 years. What specifically do you know about the supposed deficiencies that are present at EIC? Kind of a "drive-by" slagging comment, don't you think?

They have owned perimeter since 2004 but they also kept the original senior management in place for a while and once they disagreed with EIC cost cutting they were let go. Moral is at an extreme low at both companies and both were under TC enhanced monitoring once they got EIC people in place to run it I would say that is a good sign.

[NobodyCares]

Its all about cost cutting. Departments that are short are being told they are overstaffed!
Pilots who you figured would be lifers are all on the way out because of the way the place is operated.
Its only a matter of time before there's an accident...

[The Hammer]

Really, this is a ramp screw up, hardly a cost cutting effect? How many damaged/written off airplanes have occurred from pulled gear horn/brake/take off warning horn cb's alone? I've seen an airplane written off because the rampie didn't bother to open the hangar door all the way up? No conspiracy theory, he was just an idiot.

Cost cutting? Who cost cuts by putting glass cockpits into 30 year old metros and giving every pilot a free ipad, no strings attached? My boss offered me a PalmPilot on a payment plan.

Pilots are leaving everywhere because of the hiring boom. Has Perimeter ever been a lifer organization? There's probably more "lifers" now than ever in it's
+50 years.

West Wind was shutdown this fall by Winnipeg TC, does EIC own them too? that region gets off on this stuff.

[fish4life]

Cost cutting was getting rid of all the experienced maintenance guys that lead to something like this.

Why are most of the dash captains who were planning on staying are leaving or trying to leave. It should be a sign when lots of 10 year employees are pulling the pin around the same time

[pelmet]

Don't think I have ever heard of ayone doing an engine run with the tug still hooked up. Doing it on a slippery ramp is a bad, bad idea.

[digits_]

Really, this is a ramp screw up, hardly a cost cutting effect?

If mechanics are understaffed, overworked, rushed, working 20 hour shifts, they might start to cut corners.

Hypothetically of course.

[dhc#]

Anyone know if the ad for Dash 8 pilots that Perimeter posted yesterday is because of an exodus, or for planned expansion after last November/Decembers issues (past Winnipeg Free Press article mentioned something about them picking up more D8s) ?