Montair Info Updated-2017

[Puddlejumper11011]

Montair

I’m sure there will be a posting very soon advertising instructor openings for all Class’s, due to the high turnover that’s been present since day one. Especially since the recent quitting of about 6 instructors, mainly due to unfriendly treatment by management staff; before someone asks for current information, here you go.

Allow me to walk you through the insight of working at Montair. Was I an employee? Yes and No. I joined them but was done before the chaos (students) started. Let’s get right to it.

PayScale:
Class 4: 25$/hour, no base
Class 3: 28$/hour, 500 base
Class 2&1: Negotiable

The hourly pay scale I know is the same still, but the base pay info may be out dated. I believe you now receive a base pay only if you reach a certain amount of “flight hours” per month. The flight hours don’t take into account the ground school, dispatch, ground briefing times you may be forced into doing taking away from your flight time. Another catch, scheduling is done by a salaried assistant whom I don’t believe is a very smart person. Many instructors I have heard have had issues with this person due to lack of common sense, aviation knowledge or even scheduling after month of doing it. This individual is encouraged to get maximum performance out of class 3s and 4s but keep them just shy of the 40 per month. Smart eh?

Expectations: 6 Days a week, 14 hour days(usually work out to be 16), Expect your day off to be a weekday since only management gets weekend days off. You’ll be “requested” to come in on your day off, which is basically a command. Time off requests? Contract says 2 weeks but even if request is well in advance, you’ll get rejected if a senior staff wants it off, even if you requested months in advance of the other person. You’ll get worked like a dog, and given shit to in weekly meetings, over things out of your control. You’ll be hired as an instructor but get forced into working Dispatch. I’m not sure how they justify that but I think junior instructors are told you do it or you’re fired. Lay-off, If you have thick skin and keep your nose clean, but management needs you out. They’ll be “kind” and lay you off. Turn around and hire 4-6 chinese speaking instructors. Yup, as illegal as it is. Rumour is, the person who got laid off and then found out others got hired,(Which you cannot under the Canada code of labor) is in the process of taking Montair to court for legal action lol.

Recommendation:

Flight instructor Guide suggests one should be given a recommendation letter when satisfactory performance in both ground knowledge, flight manoeuvres and common sense(It doesn’t say that but it should) is reached.
You recommend the students regardless of what you think. CFI, ACFI, have deadlines to meet. So they will tell you how many students to recommend per day starting at a certain date up to I believe 80% of the group is complete. That number plays significance in I’m guessing how much and when the management receives their bonus.

I had an examiner recently share a story with me on how the supervisory staff was encouraging her to hang around and try a flight test while a thunderstorm was force casted, present and visible/audible over heard the airfield. Crazy isn’t it? Craziness is the norm at Montair it seems from talking with all the current and past staff.

Snagging: I actually couldn’t believe this one when I heard it. But the 2 former instructors were very serious in their explanation of this culture. If you discover something wrong, you are not to snag it but rather speak with an individual who has no licence, or past maintenance experience and he himself will snag it. People have been given shit repeatedly for snagging something without conversation, and these instructors are not retards. They had 500-800 hours in those type of aircraft. When something is wrong to a certain extent, it’s worth snagging to prevent accidental flying by the next gal/guy. And guess what? Yup, instances where aircraft did go flying when they shouldn’t have due to this culture. The instructors were once again given shit.

Giving Shit: It’s an encouraged culture it seems at this amazing company, usually to the class 3 or 4, working 14 hour days repeatedly. Oh and the best part, Lunch breaks are not something in the schedule…at all. You are to eat when you can. Most guys I know are working full day’s empty stomachs or acidic stomachs from repeated shit Chinese imported “coffee”.

Contracts: Everything this company does is with some school in China. From a business standpoint, it’s a big weakness due to the vulnerability in the business plan. The management keep reminding everyone how the students should be going back to Chinengland in 12 months but that clearly doesn’t happen. The first group that arrived is not at I believe 17 months and second group will likely be 19 months. They opened up a second base in alberta and same delays are present out there.

Rumour is that the guy hired to run the Red Deer base is being given shit for behind on a class. CFI is throwing responsibility at him. CFI really needs to/is on the verge of being fired, so now shits being blamed on one another. CFI blaming AFCI, AFCI blaming Multi guy. Overall, not a good place to be. Someone in management will probably get fired. And that person will likely be someone useful.
Rumour has it that “new” montair is on it way to a collapse very soon…..again. They keep saying how it’s a new company and all due to the last one being very poisonous. Guess what? It’s no different with a new owner. Here’s a logical explanation, What do owners really control? Contracts, money and future. So how will a new owner change the work conditions which you can read about all over AvCanada that were present at old Montair. It’s because of the management that was in place!!!! All they did was take A.N. out. Top 7 of the management positions of the “New” Monterror are filled by “OlD” Monterror employees.
Can old Monterror employee please comment below?

All im saying is that this information (as crazy) as it sounds is up to date, from individuals of first-hand experience.
New young pilots wanting to increase flight time take on this job a lot it seems. Just know, this companies name at the next employers interview is going to impact you negatively. Stay away.

-PuddleJumper1101

[Mercator]

Sucks to hear your experience. My interview long ago with them was a supposedly "panel" one. It made me nervous initially. Looking forward to the phone interview all prepared I got to hear various accents in the panel interview. The jokers were politically incorrect on the questions.
The questions were about my work permit, married or not and intimidating background interrogation.
I had to end the phone call with " please don't call me".

There are many FTU's looking for quality instructors due to crazy movement.
Culture is important in this industry. Seems like foreign companies are destroying the work ethic and balance.
There is crazy shortage of instructors, there will always be a job for guys like yourself who stand up to crap like this. It will be tough but it will make you a champion someday.
Cheers!
M

[7ECA]

Entertaining as always, reading about the "new" Montair.

As it turns out, this is highly accurate - and should be required reading for anyone thinking of prostrating themselves at the feet of IK, BP, and PJ, et el...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=24352

[trey kule]

Here is something to think about.

This is not the first thread like this on AvCanada that spelled out the work culture at Montair.

One therefore has to wonder how they managed to hire another group of pilots who are now again being replaced.

Will reading what it is like here stop even one pilot from applying...?
I have my doubts.

Even the poster who went to the interview stage. Was he aware and chose to ignore.

I am curious puddle....did you read the threads here and ignore them and apply?
The update is not telling any one to much new.Almost seems like a bit of bitterness from someone who ignored the previous thread advice..
I would like to hear , as a matter of human factor interest, from any pilots who read the previous threads and then went ahead and applied in spite of them..

No matter how good the advice here is , it is unrealistic to believe for a minute that more than a few will listen to it. And I expect a very few.

It would completely surprise me if they were not able to fill all their positions...A very pleasant surprise.

As to not entering defects...That is something TC should be becoming involved in.. And not after a bitter pilot quits and wants to pretend he was not part of the gang. When it happens..The very first time. I have no more respect for a pilot that would agree to not entering a defect than the people that told him not to do it..

[fixnfly]

I had a classmate that had an interview with montair at the red deer location. The guy called him up and setup a skype interview for the following day at a predetermined time. Said classmate was ready for the skype interview at their planned time but the interviewer never showed. My classmate tried to call the school and email the guy to no avail and after about an hour he gave up. Around midnight that night he received an email from the interviewer saying that he was busy that day and they would have to reschedule for later that week. Needless to say my classmate promptly turned them down and looked else where for work. Ive heard several stories from other instructors that have worked there about the poor treatment and lack of respect from management which is unfortunate. Chinese contracts are very lucrative and with a large amount of revenue and resources, there shouldn't be an excuse to create such an awful work environment for the employees.

[shamrock104]

Don't do it. Too many jobs out there.

[altiplano]

Is Montair still run by Al? Or is the new Montair different?

I did some flying there long ago in ZBB and remember what a dick he liked to be and would walk all over people that would let him.

The thing is to not let yourself be treated that way and stand up for yourself on day 1. I never had a problem with Al because I put him in his place at the beginning. Maybe that's difficult for a young instructor or student just starting out, but you will encounter lots of jerks in this business throughout your career - captains or bosses or others that will want to push you or want you to push it... weather, weight, pay, whatever... I know for me there have been many encounters.

As long as you have ground to stand on use it, and if it goes too far, walk. Good luck.

[Pilot0008]

I worked at this school for a total of 2 weeks.... Have absolutely nothing good to say about how they treat their employees; also have some serious safety concerns. I was hired with the promise of a good schedule and pay but as soon as you sign the agreement, you find out that everything the CFI said is a lie. He is overpaid (over 100 g's a year) and he has very little brains on how to run a Chinese Airline program. Also if they are integrated students, these instructors are required to have a 14 hour duty day which I believe is not being followed. Stay far away from this school even if you are hour hungry and willing to put up with this crap, because sooner or later those safety concerns will be of great concern to you...

Anonymous class 2 instructor

[Puddlejumper11011]

Feb. 19, 2017 update. Old PRM, let go. CFI up next on the choping block. YPK ops manager making a move, gentleman trying to get owners to kick CFI out. Fun fact, he's done this before. (Time on type) lol

[shamrock104]

Who is in charge now at the Red Deer location?

[MathieuD]

Woooooooow !!! Fortunately I'm reading this cause I was about to get there hahaha !!
What's wrong in here ?? Are there only bad flight center ??
I'm about to leave because of some issued with it, see my topic "flight center issues"
Thank you for your review though, really helpfull

[Montair Aviation]

Please see attached response from Montair Aviation Inc.

AvCanada-Montair Response.pdf

(213.17 KiB) Downloaded 551 times

[shamrock104]

Time will tell, lets wait and see.

[trey kule]

That was a very well written rebuttal by Montair, although it seemed to me, to sidestep some of the points raised.

However, the sense I have , from the posts, is that the school was, or maybe still is, being run on a Chinese Flight Training Unit business model, and managed the same way. I have some first hand experience with several Chinese mainland flight training units, and their business model , and management is simply not compatible with the Canadian system. Even more so if they are training foreign pilots.

But I have no first hand experience with Montair. My impression was formed from the nature of the posts.

If that impression is correct, then it makes sense to wait and see.

[Ewong]

Hey everyone!

I don't normally post on here but let me tell you about my experience with montair.
I had been teaching for 8 years in total in the lower mainland.
Last year I had a chance to work at Montair. Although it wasn't perfect, like no company can ever be. I really enjoyed my time there. I was nervous about working at Montair before because of their reputation but there was nothing to worry about. The management is super supportive and they want the best for you. If you have any questions they will be happy to help. Since I've been flying for nearly 15 years in the lower mainland in general aviation I have known about the "Old Montair" so I can tell you that this company is nothing like that. The pay is also higher than average for flight instructing.
Yes you will be encouraged to work long hours. But when I asked them to work as part-time it has been approved, when I asked for time off or vacation it has also always been approved.
And I can say it's not true that they hire only Chinese instructors to teach them in Chinese and if they are Chinese like many people here in Vancouver, they are told not to speak that language to the students.
After about a year of working I decided to move on to the airlines and that's where me and the old PRM is. It's a lie to say he was "let go". He decided to go to the airlines(Ended up the same company as me)
If you guys are looking for a job I would totally recommend Montair. Also don't be afraid to head to Red Deer it was a great experience flying there. Montair is a great company to work for, you get a lot of hours and experience fast and everyone is so nice and friendly to you, especially Blair Parrant the CFI. If you have any questions about montair feel free to ask me.

[Black_Tusk]

I see Montair is pusing their "IATPL" integrated course on social media now. I still dont' see what writing the exams at 250 hours will gain you. Are they frozen or do you still have to hit 1500 hours in 2 years from writing? I was not away TC had a "frozen ATPL" option?

[Black_Tusk]

I see Montair is pusing their "IATPL" integrated course on social media now. I still dont' see what writing the exams at 250 hours will gain you. Are they frozen or do you still have to hit 1500 hours in 2 years from writing? I was not away TC had a "frozen ATPL" option?

[Aeros]

I see Montair is pusing their "IATPL" integrated course on social media now. I still dont' see what writing the exams at 250 hours will gain you. Are they frozen or do you still have to hit 1500 hours in 2 years from writing? I was not away TC had a "frozen ATPL" option?

If the exams are written as part of an Integrated ATPL program they end up being valid for five years.

(1) Subject to subsection (3), written examinations, including all sections of a sectionalized examination, that are required for the issuance of a permit or licence or for the endorsement of a permit or licence with a rating shall be completed during the 24-month period preceding the date of the application for the permit, licence or rating.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply in respect of examinations that are required for the issuance of

(a) a student pilot permit; or

(b) an airline transport pilot licence if examinations were previously written

(i) for the endorsement of a type rating, a mark of 70 per cent or higher was obtained on the examination and the type rating was issued;

(ii) for the issuance of the former senior commercial pilot licence, a mark of 70 per cent or higher was obtained on the examination and the senior commercial pilot licence was issued; or

(iii) for the issuance of an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane, an airline transport pilot licence — aeroplane integrated course was successfully completed during the 5-year period preceding the date of the application for the licence and a course completion certificate was issued.

(3) The regulatory requirements examination referred to in subsection 566.03(5) of Standard 566 — Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Licensing and Training that is required for the issuance of an aircraft maintenance engineer (AME) licence shall be completed during the 12-month period immediately following the date on which the application for the licence is accepted by the Minister.

[trey kule]

Ewong...

Joined AvCanada 17 June...after 8 years in the industry.
And your first post is completely at odds with virtually every other post.

Yep...Chinese based management philosophy.

i doubt all the warnings given by people here will be heeded anyway, but I am now of the opinion that this is a company to stay far away from....

On the other hand, it might be interesting if those who have had bad experiences post why they ignored the advice here from before. This is not a reputation that just occurred

[Ewong]

Yes. As I mentioned above if you read my post I normally stray away from posting in these forms. I have used avcanada to look for jobs but I do not like posting.

The only reason why I am posting is to let you know that I have worked at montair. Started last year and left a few months ago. So I have no connection to Montair now and no reason to lie to you. As I have used my real name you can look me up and I am a real person.

I was happy working for them and I would do it again. This is my option. And I am sure others are happy there too. Just like most reviews. People like to focus on the negatives around companies.

No company is perfect. But I felt like they treated me fairly and with respect. If you don't believe me than that's up to you.