Looking for sms...
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
Re: Looking for sms...
Excuse me for being dense but what is smsFLOATER wrote: sms
I think he's talking about the news Safety Management System. Give Keystone in Selkirk, MB a call. They're the first in Canada to implement, and thus the "safest airline in Canada" per their own accord.
It's better to break ground and head into the wind than to break wind and head into the ground.
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Sentient Safety
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SMS
Hi Floater,
I've just sent you a private message re: SMS. In case that doesn't reach you successfully, you can email me at safety@monarch.net for more information.
Cheers!
Lori
I've just sent you a private message re: SMS. In case that doesn't reach you successfully, you can email me at safety@monarch.net for more information.
Cheers!
Lori
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Sentient Safety
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Hornblower
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Check Pilot
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I think a lot of folks, particularly some of those more skeptical of the process were just waiting for something like someone asking to "buy" an SMS.
Unfortunately SMS can't be "bought". Trying to "buy" a Safety Management System is like trying to "buy" a cultural change in a foreign country. SMS is method of risk management that requires a lot of time, effort and money and most importantly a change in attitude from the old fly-fix-fly culture that still exists in many parts of the aviation industry today, to one where safety becomes the number one focus of anything a Company does. As the sayings go it is "woven into the fabric" of the Company culture where no one is afraid to speak up and express concerns regardless of how minor of trivial they seem to be.
There will be a lot of agonizing in the future when SMS becomes a regulatory requirement for air taxi and commuter operators that have never been exposed to it previously. Some of them will not be able to leap the cultural barrier and will die. Others that excel at it probably have most of the components in place already and don't even realize it so the change will be simple.
The simple question of "buying" an SMS will raise a lot of eyebrows.
Unfortunately SMS can't be "bought". Trying to "buy" a Safety Management System is like trying to "buy" a cultural change in a foreign country. SMS is method of risk management that requires a lot of time, effort and money and most importantly a change in attitude from the old fly-fix-fly culture that still exists in many parts of the aviation industry today, to one where safety becomes the number one focus of anything a Company does. As the sayings go it is "woven into the fabric" of the Company culture where no one is afraid to speak up and express concerns regardless of how minor of trivial they seem to be.
There will be a lot of agonizing in the future when SMS becomes a regulatory requirement for air taxi and commuter operators that have never been exposed to it previously. Some of them will not be able to leap the cultural barrier and will die. Others that excel at it probably have most of the components in place already and don't even realize it so the change will be simple.
The simple question of "buying" an SMS will raise a lot of eyebrows.
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Hornblower
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CP has on a pair of those rose colored glasses, ... where do you get them CP. Yours seem to work exceptionally well.
As for me I think some will do it right, and others will buy them and stick them on the shelf with the MCM and ops manual.
The question is: Will TC actually tear those guys down or not? Stay tuned ...
As for me I think some will do it right, and others will buy them and stick them on the shelf with the MCM and ops manual.
The question is: Will TC actually tear those guys down or not? Stay tuned ...
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Check Pilot
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hornblower,
Your remarks show that you may not understand the process.
SMS is not contained in a manual like the MCM or Ops Manual. Its an attitude that develops. TC will not be looking for a "manual" although there may be one. They will no longer be looking for rigid compliance with CAR's, although that's part of it because a successful SMS will promote that too.
The emphasis will be on finding out what the Company attitudes are about SMS all the way from the "accountable executive" down through the Ops Manager, Chief Pilot, Pilots, Engineers and probably the cleaning staff if they have any.
If there is an indication that peope in the Company are merely showing good things up front when there are serious problems in attitude in the back, it will get uncovered.
That's my problem when looking through "rose coloured glasses".
It's not a big change to go from rose to red.
So if you believe it's just another manual that will be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere you may want to look further into the subject.
Your remarks show that you may not understand the process.
SMS is not contained in a manual like the MCM or Ops Manual. Its an attitude that develops. TC will not be looking for a "manual" although there may be one. They will no longer be looking for rigid compliance with CAR's, although that's part of it because a successful SMS will promote that too.
The emphasis will be on finding out what the Company attitudes are about SMS all the way from the "accountable executive" down through the Ops Manager, Chief Pilot, Pilots, Engineers and probably the cleaning staff if they have any.
If there is an indication that peope in the Company are merely showing good things up front when there are serious problems in attitude in the back, it will get uncovered.
That's my problem when looking through "rose coloured glasses".
It's not a big change to go from rose to red.
So if you believe it's just another manual that will be collecting dust on a shelf somewhere you may want to look further into the subject.
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Schooner69
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Check Pilot is correct. FYI, Corporate Aviation has been operating under SMS since 2003. A generic SMS guide is available on the CBAA website and is a good starting point for someone contemplating writing their manual.
Many of the auditors listed on the CBAA website have experience in writing manuals. They may be searched out by going to the CBAA website and selecting "Private Operator Certificate Program" on the left hand side of the screen. Then select "Auditors" and then select "Accredited Auditors List".
John
Many of the auditors listed on the CBAA website have experience in writing manuals. They may be searched out by going to the CBAA website and selecting "Private Operator Certificate Program" on the left hand side of the screen. Then select "Auditors" and then select "Accredited Auditors List".
John
Every Day Is Saturday
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Sentient Safety
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The recent comments in this thread are heartening. SMS is indeed a concept that should/must be woven into the very fabric/culture of an organization. It's true that an SMS program can't be bought. (I'd like to point out, though, that an SMS program doesn't necessarily have to cost a lot of money.)
I sure enjoy this forum. I don't want to bust in with a one-track-mind, so I'll stop posting about aviation safety for a while.
Y'all are a great community. Thanks, sincerely, for that.
I sure enjoy this forum. I don't want to bust in with a one-track-mind, so I'll stop posting about aviation safety for a while.
Y'all are a great community. Thanks, sincerely, for that.
If you're looking for a decent SMS course that will give you everything you need to get on board, drop me a PM. I took one about a year and a half ago and found the guy who taught the course to be really good. I believe he travels but is primarily based in YVR.
As others have said, SMS is about forming a company culture that enhances safety while still allowing for maximum profits. The idea of buying a manual and shelfing it is silly for a whack of reasons - not the least of which is the amount of free material available to get a system up and running on your own.
As others have said, SMS is about forming a company culture that enhances safety while still allowing for maximum profits. The idea of buying a manual and shelfing it is silly for a whack of reasons - not the least of which is the amount of free material available to get a system up and running on your own.
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Cat Driver
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hornblower has a point.
" As for me I think some will do it right, and others will buy them and stick them on the shelf with the MCM and ops manual. "
Regardless of the weight of the paper work in any company library, regardless of the weight of the paper the safety mentality of any company can vary wildly as it always has in aviation.
These manuals and rules must be reinforced with education that means something, the biggest factor that degrades most companies is the pilots and mechanics fear of loss of job should they be preceived as rocking the boat.
There is a danger in envoking to many rules, regulations, policies and manuals in that the message gets lost in the blizzard of messages.
Aviation is reaching the point of saturation with well meaning programs that are put in place and then just ignored by far to many operators...
Safety is a personal discipline and sometimes takes far to long for individuals to pay attention. However education is probably the best way to improve the industry.
I was required to take the CRM retraining again this year in Holland, the other pilots fly for airlines and of course have their own CRM classes, when it was all over we all felt that to much of a good thing takes away from the intent.
Cat
" As for me I think some will do it right, and others will buy them and stick them on the shelf with the MCM and ops manual. "
Regardless of the weight of the paper work in any company library, regardless of the weight of the paper the safety mentality of any company can vary wildly as it always has in aviation.
These manuals and rules must be reinforced with education that means something, the biggest factor that degrades most companies is the pilots and mechanics fear of loss of job should they be preceived as rocking the boat.
There is a danger in envoking to many rules, regulations, policies and manuals in that the message gets lost in the blizzard of messages.
Aviation is reaching the point of saturation with well meaning programs that are put in place and then just ignored by far to many operators...
Safety is a personal discipline and sometimes takes far to long for individuals to pay attention. However education is probably the best way to improve the industry.
I was required to take the CRM retraining again this year in Holland, the other pilots fly for airlines and of course have their own CRM classes, when it was all over we all felt that to much of a good thing takes away from the intent.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Check Pilot
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Cat:
If you look behind the rules, regulations, standards, policies, advisories and all the rest of the paper, what SMS is really trying to do is make aviation grow up. It's a huge change. It’s a change that will not be easily accepted by some long-in-the-tooth Operators out there. It's a change that will take an enormous pile of discipline on everyone’s part to get used to.
It also means that TC will no longer be on everyone’s back about the super-infinite, slavish adherence to some bureaucratic whim about some procedure or rule. It's meant to take the responsibility for any kind of incident out of the purview of TC and throw it directly into the hands of the Operator. A successful SMS will mean that the operator has already handled an incident and acted to prevent anything like it from happening again long before TC might even call.
In fact, it might mean that the Operator calls TC before TC is even aware of an incident just to let them know about the corrective actions.
A successful SMS is based on trust, honesty and openness, with people knowing that punitive action is not an option for innocent errors. We are all humans and we will make mistakes that were not foreseen beforehand. That's what SMS is all about. It means no one has to fear the consequences of making an innocent mistake.
A successful risk management system sees all the issues such as probability, severity and cost of mitigation and that's where the time, effort and money come into play.
That should make life easier for everyone and I think you should be aquiver with anticipation.
I just wish that it would have happened voluntarily a long time ago without the TC cloud hanging over nervous Operators that know they are going to have to go down this road in the future, whether they like it or not.
There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them.
The times they are a changin’ as the saying goes.
Here’s to hoping for the best.
If you look behind the rules, regulations, standards, policies, advisories and all the rest of the paper, what SMS is really trying to do is make aviation grow up. It's a huge change. It’s a change that will not be easily accepted by some long-in-the-tooth Operators out there. It's a change that will take an enormous pile of discipline on everyone’s part to get used to.
It also means that TC will no longer be on everyone’s back about the super-infinite, slavish adherence to some bureaucratic whim about some procedure or rule. It's meant to take the responsibility for any kind of incident out of the purview of TC and throw it directly into the hands of the Operator. A successful SMS will mean that the operator has already handled an incident and acted to prevent anything like it from happening again long before TC might even call.
In fact, it might mean that the Operator calls TC before TC is even aware of an incident just to let them know about the corrective actions.
A successful SMS is based on trust, honesty and openness, with people knowing that punitive action is not an option for innocent errors. We are all humans and we will make mistakes that were not foreseen beforehand. That's what SMS is all about. It means no one has to fear the consequences of making an innocent mistake.
A successful risk management system sees all the issues such as probability, severity and cost of mitigation and that's where the time, effort and money come into play.
That should make life easier for everyone and I think you should be aquiver with anticipation.
I just wish that it would have happened voluntarily a long time ago without the TC cloud hanging over nervous Operators that know they are going to have to go down this road in the future, whether they like it or not.
There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them.
The times they are a changin’ as the saying goes.
Here’s to hoping for the best.
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Cat Driver
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Check Pilot.
" There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them. "
That sounds like maybe things are finally moving in the right direction and I am all for that.
Unfortunately I have really gotten out of the loop as far as Canadian aviation is concerned, it's been years since I have had any need to keep abrest of what is happening in Canada and I have even let my Canadian instrument rating lapse because I have no need for it anymore.
I have however been very active in aviation outside of Canada and my main effort has been working with the insurance industry trying to receive approval for a training program that would convince the underwriters to lower their hour requirements based on my training program being completed and a standard achieved.
Finally just last month they issued the first coverage based on my training program, man I'll tell you it has been a long road getting them to recognize that their risk factor will be sufficiently lowered to the point that they will lower the minimums. It has taken over six years but finally it is paying off.
So the bottom line is if anyone in aviation respects the safety factor and wants to improve same it is me.
From what I am seeing here SMS just may be a step in the right direction and if so will benefit the industry.
Cat
" There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them. "
That sounds like maybe things are finally moving in the right direction and I am all for that.
Unfortunately I have really gotten out of the loop as far as Canadian aviation is concerned, it's been years since I have had any need to keep abrest of what is happening in Canada and I have even let my Canadian instrument rating lapse because I have no need for it anymore.
I have however been very active in aviation outside of Canada and my main effort has been working with the insurance industry trying to receive approval for a training program that would convince the underwriters to lower their hour requirements based on my training program being completed and a standard achieved.
Finally just last month they issued the first coverage based on my training program, man I'll tell you it has been a long road getting them to recognize that their risk factor will be sufficiently lowered to the point that they will lower the minimums. It has taken over six years but finally it is paying off.
So the bottom line is if anyone in aviation respects the safety factor and wants to improve same it is me.
From what I am seeing here SMS just may be a step in the right direction and if so will benefit the industry.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Check Pilot
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Hornblower
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CP says: It's a huge change. It’s a change that will not be easily accepted by some long-in-the-tooth Operators out there. It's a change that will take an enormous pile of discipline on everyone’s part to get used to.
And Time, and time = money.
CP says: In fact, it might mean that the Operator calls TC before TC is even aware of an incident just to let them know about the corrective actions.
There will or should be no requirement for TC to be informed. If SMS means taking ownership of your own safety system, why would you need to inform TC??? Are they still going to baby-sit an industry they’re not capable of adequately overseeing (by there own admission, which is one of the reasons for implementing this program)?
CP says: A successful SMS is based on trust, honesty and openness, with people knowing that punitive action is not an option for innocent errors.
Maybe you don’t understand that virtually every successful corporation is inherently dishonest and profit motivated to the point where profit is the overriding factor in business decision making (If you’re not responsible to your shareholders then you’re not responsible at all). And I’m not talking about the local car dealer; I’m referring to major pharmaceutical companies, banks, major utility and energy companies, and the government itself. Hence my comment about wearing rose colored glasses. Your theory is for the most part correct, however perhaps you give too much credit to profit motivated decision makers.
CP says: A successful risk management system sees all the issues such as probability, severity and cost of mitigation and that's where the time, effort and money come into play.
That should make life easier for everyone and I think you should be aquiver with anticipation.
I really doubt that Cat is anticipating fair and rational treatment from the regulator.
CP says: There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them.
Are you sure?? I am unaware of any SMS operators at all, let alone any that have received benefits from an SMS. Do you know any? Can you name some? Can you be sure they are being honest with you?
And Time, and time = money.
CP says: In fact, it might mean that the Operator calls TC before TC is even aware of an incident just to let them know about the corrective actions.
There will or should be no requirement for TC to be informed. If SMS means taking ownership of your own safety system, why would you need to inform TC??? Are they still going to baby-sit an industry they’re not capable of adequately overseeing (by there own admission, which is one of the reasons for implementing this program)?
CP says: A successful SMS is based on trust, honesty and openness, with people knowing that punitive action is not an option for innocent errors.
Maybe you don’t understand that virtually every successful corporation is inherently dishonest and profit motivated to the point where profit is the overriding factor in business decision making (If you’re not responsible to your shareholders then you’re not responsible at all). And I’m not talking about the local car dealer; I’m referring to major pharmaceutical companies, banks, major utility and energy companies, and the government itself. Hence my comment about wearing rose colored glasses. Your theory is for the most part correct, however perhaps you give too much credit to profit motivated decision makers.
CP says: A successful risk management system sees all the issues such as probability, severity and cost of mitigation and that's where the time, effort and money come into play.
That should make life easier for everyone and I think you should be aquiver with anticipation.
I really doubt that Cat is anticipating fair and rational treatment from the regulator.
CP says: There are Operators out there that have already done this stuff and it has paid off in spades, like insurance and maintenance costs for them.
Are you sure?? I am unaware of any SMS operators at all, let alone any that have received benefits from an SMS. Do you know any? Can you name some? Can you be sure they are being honest with you?
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Cat Driver
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hornblower :
You say :
" I really doubt that Cat is anticipating fair and rational treatment from the regulator. "
On that issue you are 100% correct, however this SMS thing intrigues me.
I really have no idea what in hell you guys are talking about but if SMS puts the safety onus back where it belongs ( I.E. ) under the control of the one person who is best positioned in the company and has the authority under law to enforce safety rules, the chief pilot , then SMS could be workable.
I am only a curious bystander here in this discussion because of all the years I was invloved in management in aviation and having watched the industry go down hill instead of improve.
So I shall read and watch where this discussion goes...
...so far both you and Check Pilot have offered opinions that have validity, even though you are at opposite ends of the spectrum...
...me I like to think I'm in the center.
Cat
You say :
" I really doubt that Cat is anticipating fair and rational treatment from the regulator. "
On that issue you are 100% correct, however this SMS thing intrigues me.
I really have no idea what in hell you guys are talking about but if SMS puts the safety onus back where it belongs ( I.E. ) under the control of the one person who is best positioned in the company and has the authority under law to enforce safety rules, the chief pilot , then SMS could be workable.
I am only a curious bystander here in this discussion because of all the years I was invloved in management in aviation and having watched the industry go down hill instead of improve.
So I shall read and watch where this discussion goes...
...so far both you and Check Pilot have offered opinions that have validity, even though you are at opposite ends of the spectrum...
...me I like to think I'm in the center.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Check Pilot
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- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:26 am
Hornblower,
I can see that you do not have a positive attitude regarding the inevitable forthcoming changes that are about to be FORCED on the aviation industry, from large CAR 705 carriers right down to the “Mom and Pop” 703 companies. I really do understand your point of view. When we work in a system that has gone on much the same way for a long time it becomes excruciatingly painful to change.
One of the things that has changed in a trade, that is way older than aviation, is the marine business. Shipping via sea has a thousand year set of customs and way of going about business. That kind of tradition can’t be changed without the use of a huge hammer.
It did though.
Insurance Companies did that right away after Exxon Valdez.
It became superbly obvious to the Marine shipping industry that an accident was no longer acceptable. So they changed. They had to. With a terrific amount of sudden shock to the owners. Lots of super profitable companies did not survive after that one single episode of negligence.
I hope this is not the fate of Aviation. We in the business have an opportunity to change things our way before the insurance companies for it for us. Some might argue that it has already gone too far. No it hasn’t. We still have time to control our own destiny, if we, in the industry are willing to try.
You said virtually every successful corporation is only interested in the bottom line.
That is blatantly not true.
Your observations err because there are many operations in the aviation industry you will never hear about, or from, precisely because they already operate with some form of SMS already. Maybe it’s not the same system that TC envisions but it may be better than the minimum standard as seen by the regulator, but they have a system of some sort, maybe not known as SMS, but an effective system nonetheless.
I hesitate to name those private companies out there, but one that is not private that you could look at as a superb example of an effective implementer of SMS is the Province of Manitoba. The only reason I mention them is that they are a government body that is subject to freedom of information for anyone willing to go and get information about this public State Operator.
I can’t, in good conscience name anyone else.
You never hear about them, do you? But there they are - quietly going on with their business. You have not idea they even exist. Just like any good corporation that makes lots of money for their shareholders and have a positive outlook about getting the job done as safely as can be reasonably expected.
I never hear about Dow Chemical any more. Do you? They killed a lot of people in Bhopal India and learned the hard way that some kind of action was required. Where are they today? I don’t believe you will ever hear about them in the media again. They saw the light and underwent a powerful culture change that left a lot of former employees without jobs.
The same thing is about to affect our business. Aviation will have to change with the times. It’s going to mean a lot of kicking and screaming and trying to blame everyone but the Operator. The regulator will get a ton of flak, finger pointing and crap for being the “dictator”, but the reality is that no one can afford to not get with the same concern for safety that so many other industries have already adopted.
And yes, I expected your remark about reporting incidents to TC would come out. The reason successful SMS Companies do that is the same reason they notify everyone else in the loop. They have a concern for safety and information needs to be passed on to everyone involved, not because they “have” to do it but to allow as wide a dissemination as possible, so that no one else gets trapped by the same thing that the Operator was unable to foresee. That means helping other Operators out, if you can fathom that. I suspect that may be a completely foreign idea to you.
The conventional stuff coming across in this forum, very rightly, tends to be pretty negative towards Operators because of the discussion about a few of those Operators that take advantage of low time pilots that are looking for work at almost any cost.
The outlook is positive toward the future, despite all the negative stuff.
Please get on with this difficult change. I know you can’t see the positive changes that will be coming forth in the next 4 or 5, maybe ten years, but from my point of view, it certainly can’t get worse and this is a ray of hope for every Operator, pilot, engineer, bag smasher, rampie or whatever.
It’s coming, whether you like it or not.
I can see that you do not have a positive attitude regarding the inevitable forthcoming changes that are about to be FORCED on the aviation industry, from large CAR 705 carriers right down to the “Mom and Pop” 703 companies. I really do understand your point of view. When we work in a system that has gone on much the same way for a long time it becomes excruciatingly painful to change.
One of the things that has changed in a trade, that is way older than aviation, is the marine business. Shipping via sea has a thousand year set of customs and way of going about business. That kind of tradition can’t be changed without the use of a huge hammer.
It did though.
Insurance Companies did that right away after Exxon Valdez.
It became superbly obvious to the Marine shipping industry that an accident was no longer acceptable. So they changed. They had to. With a terrific amount of sudden shock to the owners. Lots of super profitable companies did not survive after that one single episode of negligence.
I hope this is not the fate of Aviation. We in the business have an opportunity to change things our way before the insurance companies for it for us. Some might argue that it has already gone too far. No it hasn’t. We still have time to control our own destiny, if we, in the industry are willing to try.
You said virtually every successful corporation is only interested in the bottom line.
That is blatantly not true.
Your observations err because there are many operations in the aviation industry you will never hear about, or from, precisely because they already operate with some form of SMS already. Maybe it’s not the same system that TC envisions but it may be better than the minimum standard as seen by the regulator, but they have a system of some sort, maybe not known as SMS, but an effective system nonetheless.
I hesitate to name those private companies out there, but one that is not private that you could look at as a superb example of an effective implementer of SMS is the Province of Manitoba. The only reason I mention them is that they are a government body that is subject to freedom of information for anyone willing to go and get information about this public State Operator.
I can’t, in good conscience name anyone else.
You never hear about them, do you? But there they are - quietly going on with their business. You have not idea they even exist. Just like any good corporation that makes lots of money for their shareholders and have a positive outlook about getting the job done as safely as can be reasonably expected.
I never hear about Dow Chemical any more. Do you? They killed a lot of people in Bhopal India and learned the hard way that some kind of action was required. Where are they today? I don’t believe you will ever hear about them in the media again. They saw the light and underwent a powerful culture change that left a lot of former employees without jobs.
The same thing is about to affect our business. Aviation will have to change with the times. It’s going to mean a lot of kicking and screaming and trying to blame everyone but the Operator. The regulator will get a ton of flak, finger pointing and crap for being the “dictator”, but the reality is that no one can afford to not get with the same concern for safety that so many other industries have already adopted.
And yes, I expected your remark about reporting incidents to TC would come out. The reason successful SMS Companies do that is the same reason they notify everyone else in the loop. They have a concern for safety and information needs to be passed on to everyone involved, not because they “have” to do it but to allow as wide a dissemination as possible, so that no one else gets trapped by the same thing that the Operator was unable to foresee. That means helping other Operators out, if you can fathom that. I suspect that may be a completely foreign idea to you.
The conventional stuff coming across in this forum, very rightly, tends to be pretty negative towards Operators because of the discussion about a few of those Operators that take advantage of low time pilots that are looking for work at almost any cost.
The outlook is positive toward the future, despite all the negative stuff.
Please get on with this difficult change. I know you can’t see the positive changes that will be coming forth in the next 4 or 5, maybe ten years, but from my point of view, it certainly can’t get worse and this is a ray of hope for every Operator, pilot, engineer, bag smasher, rampie or whatever.
It’s coming, whether you like it or not.
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Cat Driver
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O.K troops, patronize me a little here.
From my experience in aviation which takes in most areas of same from Bush flying to Airline and Helicopters it has been my experience that where safety falls short it is usually triggered by the culture of the company management.
Broadly speaking most accidents are the result of pushing weather, overloaded aircraft, poor or non existant maintenance, flying when fatigued and of course pressure to fly despite any of the foregoing.
I do not know of many pilots who would choose to fly under these conditions of their own accord, rather it is usually the pressure to push the limits from the company management culture that starts the chain of events that far to often end up in an accident.
I have no idea of what SMS is nor how it is to be implemented and what safeguards will be put in place to prevent this from becomming just another paper based smoke and mirrors exercise to be circumvated at will by those involved in this new idea.
Even though I no longer am directly affected by this I need to know everything I can about it because I am still kicking around the idea of starting an advanced flight training program. Even though my training will not require an OC I still want to be as up to date with the industry as possible.
Can someone explain how SMS will be implimented and what safe guards they will have to prevent it from becoming compromized at the will of the industry?
Cat
From my experience in aviation which takes in most areas of same from Bush flying to Airline and Helicopters it has been my experience that where safety falls short it is usually triggered by the culture of the company management.
Broadly speaking most accidents are the result of pushing weather, overloaded aircraft, poor or non existant maintenance, flying when fatigued and of course pressure to fly despite any of the foregoing.
I do not know of many pilots who would choose to fly under these conditions of their own accord, rather it is usually the pressure to push the limits from the company management culture that starts the chain of events that far to often end up in an accident.
I have no idea of what SMS is nor how it is to be implemented and what safeguards will be put in place to prevent this from becomming just another paper based smoke and mirrors exercise to be circumvated at will by those involved in this new idea.
Even though I no longer am directly affected by this I need to know everything I can about it because I am still kicking around the idea of starting an advanced flight training program. Even though my training will not require an OC I still want to be as up to date with the industry as possible.
Can someone explain how SMS will be implimented and what safe guards they will have to prevent it from becoming compromized at the will of the industry?
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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shitdisturber
- Rank 10
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
sms...just one more Ottawa buz word to justify somebodies over payed employment. Methinks I've been doing this for years....it just didn't have a name. Lets get the airlines to spend even more money jumping through Ottawa's hoops! Let me see, did I wipe my ass properly this morning? If I were to implement "sms" then I'd be really sure I got every little cling-on and will-not, and like Keystone, I'd have the safest ass in the whole industry!
