Westjet goes ALPA

[altiplano]

62% yes vote
97% voter turnout

[flyer 1492]

Congratulations to the pilots of West Jet. Great turn out for the vote.

['97 Tercel]

Here's your new magazine subscription. There will be some money coming off your pay as well.

FA's next....

[RRJetPilot]

I had to sign up just for this.

This is great news for ALL pilots of Canada. Together we are stronger. Corporate greed can stay in finance. Pilots will not be pawns between companies anymore. Companies can succeed without using us as bargaining chips. I'm interested in how WJ will spin this one. Probably try to turn the public against its own pilots. Be strong brothers.

[DrSpaceman]

Congrats! Air Canada next?

[co-joe]

Congrats! Air Canada next?

Let's hope so. One united voice against the federal government and the erosion of union rights.

[Roar]

My condolences.

[flyer 1492]

Here's your new magazine subscription. There will be some money coming off your pay as well.

FA's next....[/quote]


Small change considering how much comes off your income tax every payday.

[Rebel99]

Edited.

Let's hope so. One united voice against the federal government and the erosion of union rights.[/quote]

[Rockie]

My condolences.

Why?

[PointyEngine]

Great news!! Sanity prevails occasionally!!! Now bring on negotiation time!!!

[Rockie]

Great news!! Sanity prevails occasionally!!! Now bring on negotiation time!!!

While this will be a good thing ultimately for the Westjet pilot group let me temper it with some reality. You and your company are now polarized if your union representatives do their jobs properly because they represent you, not you and your company...you. Rest assured the company negotiators represent the company and ONLY the company. Your group would be wise to follow suit.

That does not exclude mutually beneficial agreements though, but your negotiators must not ever give anything away without at least an equal return...and that's just to hold your own. The pretence of mutually interest based bargaining is a myth. Trust me that your company doesn't believe in it anymore if they ever did. You only get what you are prepared to insist on backed up by a willingness to down tools. That's the way it is, and even if you don't subscribe to that line of thinking your company's executive does.

It's a two edged sword.

[mbav8r]

ALPA representation is really only as good as the LEC/MEC for the company in question.
I worked at an ALPA company for many years. I was there before ALPA came in. When ALPA first came in, some very needed changes were made for the better.As time went on, the union really became less effective, for several reasons. Many times, if an issue didn't personally affect the ALPA guys, the issue wouldn't get much attention at all.
Shortly before I left, a new contract was negotiated. Most of the guys on the negotiating committee were training guys, and where do you think the biggest gains in the contract were? Yup, in training pay. It certainly seemed like the handful of guys on the negotiating committee were only looking out for themselves.
I still keep in touch with a few guys at the company, and it still sounds like the union doesn't really try hard to represent the pilot group as a whole. It sounds like they try and treat it as more of an old boys club.
So, just because ALPA may come in, it doesn't necessarily mean we will be treated as one whole group."

Congrats! Air Canada next?

Let's hope so. One united voice against the federal government and the erosion of union rights.

[/quote]
Unless your MEC out numbered line pilots or just agreed to the contract without holding a vote, I'd say the pilots who voted it are to blame.

[Jean-Pierre]

Is 61% considered good? Seems like they are highly divided.

[Roar]

My condolences.

Why?

Do you honestly think things will become all sunshine and lollipops just because ALPA shows up?
No what will happen is the Union will make it more difficult for westjet to be profitable so the profit sharing will cease to exist, they will have to pay Union dues and at the end of the day will be making less take home because of it. Now cue all the Union drones with there unions are great help everyone BS but in reality unions do nothing and care for nothing more than their own existence.
Were conditions really that bad at Westjet, are westjet pilots working conditions vastly different from any other airline? Nope. It's just a case of the Union wanting to get a cut and convincing a bunch of people the grass is sooooo much greener with them around.

[Rockie]

Do you honestly think things will become all sunshine and lollipops just because ALPA shows up?

Did you read my previous post?

[pelmet]

There goes the profit sharing.

[nothingbeatsflying]

I've worked for union and non-union employers before. In my experience the union served a purpose initially. But the relationship between employee and employer became instantly antagonistic and good-will became a thing of the past. Trust eroded, bitterness grew, and by the time I left, all forward progress had ceased and things actually had started backwards.

Last I heard the FOs and Captains had started infighting over seniority issues.

No one wins with unions except the union bosses that get a cut of the pay check. I'll never go back.

RIP WestJet

[Big Pistons Forever]

deleted

[Big Pistons Forever]

My condolences.

Southwest Airlines has the longest history of profitable operations of any airline in North America. Its pilots are unionized.....

[Rockie]

Air Canada's doing pretty good of late as well and sharing the profits. Anybody who thinks unions are all bad are as wrong as people who think they're all good. It mostly depends on what sort of relationship the company wants because they are still 100% in the drivers seat.

[PointyEngine]

Great news!! Sanity prevails occasionally!!! Now bring on negotiation time!!!

While this will be a good thing ultimately for the Westjet pilot group let me temper it with some reality. You and your company are now polarized if your union representatives do their jobs properly because they represent you, not you and your company...you. Rest assured the company negotiators represent the company and ONLY the company. Your group would be wise to follow suit.

That does not exclude mutually beneficial agreements though, but your negotiators must not ever give anything away without at least an equal return...and that's just to hold your own. The pretence of mutually interest based bargaining is a myth. Trust me that your company doesn't believe in it anymore if they ever did. You only get what you are prepared to insist on backed up by a willingness to down tools. That's the way it is, and even if you don't subscribe to that line of thinking your company's executive does.

It's a two edged sword.

Just a bit of background, I don't work for WJ but for another major airline. The pilot group is represented by two union groups, both of which have similar but subtly different ideas of what an ideal contract looks like. We have a third group who effectively mediates negotiations and put on the table what both parties are aiming to achieve. The third group, works with both parties to achieve a financially viable option which suits both parties. The last thing we want as pilots is to "down tools". Ultimately it's not beneficial to us, the company, the brand or our passengers. However, a single voice speaking for a united group has proved to work very well, and we have been more than happy with the outcome, and the improvement to working conditions as a result of being unionized. We still have haggles, and have just entered negotiations last week. This post may change in a few weeks time!!

[valleyboy]

I would be very pleased if I were at WS. With their proposed expansion into more international flying the legal tool box alone is justifies the move. If the pilot's at WS are willing to get involved it's positive for both the pilot group and management. If management takes the time to understand how ALPA works they can enjoy benefits from ALPA resources as well. It's usually selfish people with hidden agendas who undermine the process.

[teacher]

It'll only be bad if 2 things happen:

1) Management decides to stone wall any and all union attempts to negotiate and plays hardball for the sake of getting revenge on the pilot group.

OR

2) Pilots feel that union membership is a free pass to not work hard, abuse the system and go after ridiculous unaffordable WACON conditions.

If the above does not happen than the relationship between employee and employer should not change AT ALL!!

[FICU]

No what will happen is the Union will make it more difficult for westjet to be profitable...

Care to explain how a unionized pilot group affects the company's profitability?