I CAN'T LAND A C172

[NeckStrain]

This sentence >> [*** CURRENTLY AIRBORNE, INSTRUCTOR HAS CONTROL TO ALLOW ME TO POST THIS ***] <<< was a joke at time of posting, I am not a troll lol, can't delete it cuz replies below won't make sense without it, thank you to everyone who gave thought out responses! You have all helped me visualize and hopefully execute better landings
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I keep looking at the closest portion of the runway when landing, I've done about 12 circuits over 2 days and had 4 "good" landings, the rest have had:

1) Ballooning from pulling up too far before enough airspeed has bled off straight & level

2) The ground has "surprised me" because I change my gaze from the far end of the runway to the closer portion causing me to flare too early

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you TRUST look 7000 feet down the runway but touching down underneath you ? Is this just a phase or am I never going to be able to land ? 3 hours of fuel left.

[MrAviator19]

*** CURRENTLY AIRBORNE, INSTRUCTOR HAS CONTROL TO ALLOW ME TO POST THIS ***

I keep looking at the closest portion of the runway when landing, I've done about 12 circuits over 2 days and had 4 "good" landings, the rest have had:

1) Ballooning from pulling up too far before enough airspeed has bled off straight & level

2) The ground has "surprised me" because I change my gaze from the far end of the runway to the closer portion causing me to flare too early

HELP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How do you TRUST look 7000 feet down the runway but touching down underneath you ? Is this just a phase or am I never going to be able to land ? 3 hours of fuel left.

So your instructor is ok with you looking for answers online instead of teaching you the proper way? I seriously hope you're joking about the "currently airborne" part!

Things I do on final:

1. Flaps to '3'.
2. Trim for 65-70 kts, depending on the winds. And trim GOOD! It helped me big time to fly a stable approach. Adjust power and attitude as needed.
3. Chop the power when runway is assured and then just let the plane sink. Use peripheral vision to approximate how high above the ground you are and avoid abrupt pitch up input.
4. Pitch up gradually and look at the end of the runway (or try to anyway). The nose of the aircraft should be approximately as high as when you see while taking-off.
5. Land on mains. Doesn't matter if it's hard, a landing on the main gear is a good landing! The smoothness will come with practice.

[fixedpitch]

Took words out of my mouth....if your instructor is letting you post for advice then that might be your problem. Follow mraviator19s advice just keep doing it over and over and one day it'll just click.

[MrAviator19]

Oh, and don't forget the rudder and side-slips. But that part is easy to figure out when you see that you're lined up with the cows in the field next to the runway.

[NeckStrain]

I seriously hope you're joking about the "currently airborne" part!

I don't know if this matters but === I only have 12 hours of flying time === maybe I have high expectations of myself. My first 2 landings today were PERFECT, then the wind changed, my circuits got messy, and between calling tower and doing checks, I was doing 45 degree turns in pattern and unable to maintain altitude, even at idle, the aircraft would climb, just that kinda day.

&

Haha yes, I'm joking! My instructor is cool as a cucumber given I've almost killed both of us 8 times in 2 days - I know what to do, i just don't do it...the aircraft just always gets away from me, or there's a sudden gust of wind, thanks for the tips, i'm just about exhausting every video I can find before the next flight

Thank you for the tips!

[NeckStrain]

Oh, and don't forget the rudder and side-slips. But that part is easy to figure out when you see that you're lined up with the cows in the field next to the runway.

Had a beautiful right bank - left rudder slip today to maintain the nose with the centre line, it's a beautiful feeling travelling crabbed - straight and level.

Time flies when you're having fun tho & as much as I want to have the perfect landing, it's always never enough to fly an hour or so.

[photofly]

Pretty soon you'll be able to post to Instagram from the downwind. Looking forward to the pictures.

[lownslow]

How tall are you? I know it sounds like a stupid question but landing is infinitely harder if you sit so low that you can't see the end of the cowl. I forget if 172 seats have an up/down adjustment but if you're under, say, 5'10" try an extra seat cushion.

[cgzro]

I would probably take you to an uncontrolled airport with little to no traffic and make the circuits reasonably tight to give you the maximum landings per hour. There is a lot to be said for volume once you know what you are supposed to do. You can easily get twice the circuits per hour at a little uncontrolled airport than you can at somewhere busy. This is especially true once you start to get the hang of it.

Just a thought.

[DonutHole]

What helped me was going to the field and watching people do it right. Just sat there and watched airplanes land all day. It was gusty but there was this lady out in her cub just nailing perfect 3 point after perfect 3 point. She must have filled off twenty or thirty circuits.

Also, visualization. Visualization is such a great tool. I can't prove it but I believe by visualizing a perfect approach time after time you actually get better without flying. I know after some solid flight meditation I definitely noticed marked improvement in my ability right away.

Don't chop the power. It's a control so control it.

[NeckStrain]

I am 175 cm -- HOLY CRAP! I honestly have not thought of that, I pretty much have to move my seat up as far forward as possible to get a good handle on rudders! I see a handle on the seat in the C172, I've never used it though, I will have a look at that next time!!

This is my view




THANK YOU!!!! i have always thought I sat too low!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! omg this could actually be the solution!!!

How tall are you? I know it sounds like a stupid question but landing is infinitely harder if you sit so low that you can't see the end of the cowl. I forget if 172 seats have an up/down adjustment but if you're under, say, 5'10" try an extra seat cushion.

[NeckStrain]

I'll suggest that to my CFI & see if there's anything nearby with a good length, you know what they always say, just because you can land there, doesn't mean you can take off, would suck explaining that to the school haha

Thank you.

I would probably take you to an uncontrolled airport with little to no traffic and make the circuits reasonably tight to give you the maximum landings per hour. There is a lot to be said for volume once you know what you are supposed to do. You can easily get twice the circuits per hour at a little uncontrolled airport than you can at somewhere busy. This is especially true once you start to get the hang of it.

Just a thought.

[NeckStrain]

That's a great idea! Once I run out of the YouTube videos, circuit traffic is mainly Katanas! Never flown one, may rent one after I get the PPL just to try the stick.

I've been doing a lot of couch flying after my botched landings, just out of disappointment in myself imagining all the things that I could have fixed! I'll focus on that more. Thank you!

What helped me was going to the field and watching people do it right. Just sat there and watched airplanes land all day. It was gusty but there was this lady out in her cub just nailing perfect 3 point after perfect 3 point. She must have filled off twenty or thirty circuits.

Also, visualization. Visualization is such a great tool. I can't prove it but I believe by visualizing a perfect approach time after time you actually get better without flying. I know after some solid flight meditation I definitely noticed marked improvement in my ability right away.

Don't chop the power. It's a control so control it.

[Old Dog Flying]

Fire the idiot in the right seat and get a real instructor and put that damned cell phone away. Then maybe you'll learn to fly.

[NeckStrain]

I use the phone mainly for navigation, ForeFlite and stuff, my iPAD is too giant. But with 12 hours under my belt, you really think the instructor is the issue at this point ?

Fire the idiot in the right seat and get a real instructor and put that damned cell phone away. Then maybe you'll learn to fly.

[boogs82]

You don't need a runway with "a good length." You're flying a 172. I learned to fly just outside of Sudbury on a runway that was 2250 x 35 for 13/31 and 1190 x 35 for 04/22 with some good obstacles. The 172 is a very forgiving aircraft and it doesn't need a ton of space.

[Bede]

I use the phone mainly for navigation, ForeFlite and stuff, my iPAD is too giant. But with 12 hours under my belt, you really think the instructor is the issue at this point ?

You should not be using your phone for anything at this point. What navigating have you done? To the practise area? You should be learning pilotage, not heads down playing with electronics. Your instructor ought to know better.

[Cat Driver]

If you are looking at the far end of a 7000 foot runway you will never be able to judge your height above the runway.

[NeckStrain]

You're very lucky! I wish I had a smaller runway to work with to tighten me up, having a 200 foot wide 9000 footer makes a beginner complacent in my opinion. Not to mention it's going to cause me to flare WAAAAAY too late if I ever go to smaller strips that are ACTUALLY smaller. But I guess it's all learned with experience which is the exciting part won't ever get boring!!

You don't need a runway with "a good length." You're flying a 172. I learned to fly just outside of Sudbury on a runway that was 2250 x 35 for 13/31 and 1190 x 35 for 04/22 with some good obstacles. The 172 is a very forgiving aircraft and it doesn't need a ton of space.

[NeckStrain]

That is my concern, as runway length varies between airports, where do I look so I don't over control ?? When I look far away, my control inputs are much finer! but if I glance down closer, I tend to over correct and over correct the over correction in the opposite direction

If you are looking at the far end of a 7000 foot runway you will never be able to judge your height above the runway.

[NeckStrain]

Thank you for the advice. I will stow it away in my pocket and use ATC vectoring if I get oriented incorrectly.

I use the phone mainly for navigation, ForeFlite and stuff, my iPAD is too giant. But with 12 hours under my belt, you really think the instructor is the issue at this point ?

You should not be using your phone for anything at this point. What navigating have you done? To the practise area? You should be learning pilotage, not heads down playing with electronics. Your instructor ought to know better.

[NeckStrain]

I believe this strategy may work for runways of varying lengths - widths Gonna to try it for a circuit or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv5HEJCyTuk

[Cat Driver]

Here is how I teach it:

From two hundred feet above the ground you look at the point at which you want to flare from the approach attitude to the level attitude above the runway ( about fifteen feet above the runway. )

Once you flare to the level attitude you look ahead the where apparent movement of the runway ceases to move toward you. ( In a 172 this will be about five hundred feet ahead of the airplane.

As speed decreases lift decreases and the airplane will settle toward the runway, at about five feet move the elevator control enough to stop the loss of height and that will ave you in the touch down attitude...and it will land just fine in the proper attitude.

Find an instructor who will count down the last thirty feet above the runway until you have the picture clear in your mind and that will make it easier to accurately judge the height.

[NeckStrain]

The countdown definitely seems like a good idea, I've always wanted "50, 40, 30, 20, 10, RETARDE, RETARDE" countdown haha (obv not getting that in a C172), I'm sure my instructor will be more than happy to give those callouts until I get a sense for it.

Thank you for the tips! I'm keeping all of these in mind for my next circuits! I never expected such amazing feedback, thank you all.

With instructors I'm conflicted between wanting one that lets you figure it out on your own while supervising & saving you from critical errors (after giving you directions of course) & one that wants you to land it their way (which may not be for everyone) - its a fine juggling act & I appreciate the willingness of the instructors to try multiple methods with the student in order to succeed, while risking life and limb at the same time.

Here is how I teach it:

From two hundred feet above the ground you look at the point at which you want to flare from the approach attitude to the level attitude above the runway ( about fifteen feet above the runway. )

Once you flare to the level attitude you look ahead the where apparent movement of the runway ceases to move toward you. ( In a 172 this will be about five hundred feet ahead of the airplane.

As speed decreases lift decreases and the airplane will settle toward the runway, at about five feet move the elevator control enough to stop the loss of height and that will ave you in the touch down attitude...and it will land just fine in the proper attitude.

Find an instructor who will count down the last thirty feet above the runway until you have the picture clear in your mind and that will make it easier to accurately judge the height.

[photofly]

Two things:

Firstly stop dicking with the throttle. You shouldn't need to touch the throttle more than four times per circuit. Prizes if you can list when. Ask your instructor to stab you hard in the back of your right hand with a fork if you dare even so much as to reach for the throttle anywhere from when you're descending through 200' until you're in the flare. You'll learn quickly.

Secondly, you're not trying to land the airplane, you're trying to stop it from landing. Practice low level passes at about 1900 rpm repeatedly, going lower and lower each time until you can accurately fly the length of the runway lower than a few feet above the deck.

When you're ready to land, do the same thing only close the throttle this time and still try to keep the goddam airplane off the ground as long as possible. You're not landing the plane, you're doing your best not to land.