New Pilots

Got a hot employment or interview tip to help a fellow aviator find a job or looking for a little job advice place your posting here.

Moderators: North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

hi guys, I'm hearing a lot of people talking about how Canada needs pilots and some companies even grounding planes because of pilot shortages, however, it appears to me that companies HR and chief pilots still want pilots with a lot of hours. by now I did not get any call although I'm considering to pay for my own training and staying with the company for a long time. what is wrong? do we need pilots or not. If no why the job requirements are coming lower and lower, and if yes why these Hr guys and chief pilots looking for 1500 for their King Air or 1000 for their Cessna caravan? is there anyone out there who is willing to go middle of nowhere to fly a King Air if they have 1500H?
I have 250TT and group one
---------- ADS -----------
  

fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: New Pilots

Post by fish4life »

There is a shortage of EXPERIENCED pilots not freshly licensed ones. Offering to pay for training isn’t going to help your situation either
---------- ADS -----------
  

montado
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by montado »

Yes I would say Canada has a pilot shortage. However companies are not giving a free ride to everyone. Air Canada is PFO'ing plenty of qualified pilots when apparently they are short hundreds on paper. Don't let the shortage fool you. Treat every interview as if 100 people are lined up behind you for only one position to be filled.

It's a good problem to have, this shortage. It opens many doors for every pilot. However don't let it make you complacent. I think every airline would rather park a plane than have the wrong person sitting up front.
---------- ADS -----------
  

mbav8r
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2014
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: New Pilots

Post by mbav8r »

Sean,
I’m having trouble deciding if your post is trying to illicit anger and are just trolling or do you honestly think a company would put a brand new pilot in the left seat of a King Air?
I met a pilot recently who was under a 1000 hours and was left seat on a King Air which to me was concerning to put it mildly, this pilot was quite sharp but experience of a less sharp pilot out weighs that, to me at least.
However, to your question, companies are paying 6 figures for King airs and alike at some places and that fact some are willing to roll the dice with less experience is not at all surprising.
I once told the president of a company I worked for that forcing a lower experienced pilot out in conditions they weren’t comfortable with could cost a lot more than the revenue he might lose if the trip was delayed or cancelled, fortunately he was smart enough to realize that and backed off of my guys.

If you’re trolling, you should go pay for a RJ endorsement and apply at one of the Express carriers, one of them will be sure to snap you up and when it works out I’m sure the rest of the new pilots will follow suit and we can feel good that you saved the companies tons of dough.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ditar
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 406
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:09 pm
Location: This pale blue dot

Re: New Pilots

Post by ditar »

Back in the day I got a job flying a Caravan with only 1000 hours and I thought I had won the lottery. Now everyone thinks they’re entitled to fly a 705 jet with the same. Times have sure changed.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1019
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: New Pilots

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

I once received a resume from someone who offered to pay for their type rating. I threw the resume out, but not before sending an email setting this person straight on how things work. NEVER pay for your type rating!!!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:30 am
I once received a resume from someone who offered to pay for their type rating. I threw the resume out, but not before sending an email setting this person straight on how things work. NEVER pay for your type rating!!!
all a person like me looking for is a Job a flying Job. when I ask people why I am not being hired they answer, how the company should trust you, how we should spend money and train you what is the proof that you are good? so I came with this idea of, OK I will pay for own training. you still did not answer my main question why is no one hiring me? I don't want a fancy job, all I am looking for is a job related to what I trained for, what I have its certificate and college diploma ?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Loner
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Loner »

Maybe you should ask your questions to the school that sold you the dream...
Start a road trip handing your résumé. On paper your odds are very low but face to face who knows, someone may see potential
Good luck in your search but leave entitlement attitude (if any) at the door
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:37 pm
Sean,
I’m having trouble deciding if your post is trying to illicit anger and are just trolling or do you honestly think a company would put a brand new pilot in the left seat of a King Air?
I met a pilot recently who was under a 1000 hours and was left seat on a King Air which to me was concerning to put it mildly, this pilot was quite sharp but experience of a less sharp pilot out weighs that, to me at least.
However, to your question, companies are paying 6 figures for King airs and alike at some places and that fact some are willing to roll the dice with less experience is not at all surprising.
I once told the president of a company I worked for that forcing a lower experienced pilot out in conditions they weren’t comfortable with could cost a lot more than the revenue he might lose if the trip was delayed or cancelled, fortunately he was smart enough to realize that and backed off of my guys.

If you’re trolling, you should go pay for a RJ endorsement and apply at one of the Express carriers, one of them will be sure to snap you up and when it works out I’m sure the rest of the new pilots will follow suit and we can feel good that you saved the companies tons of dough.
All I am expecting from a smart HR is to understand things are being changed, no one wants the left seat of a plane. all we new pilots are talking about is we have right training and license, we should seat on the right seat, working as Fo. It's the exact same as Europe, what makes them better pilot than us? the European passport?. we pay a lot of money and hardworking to get our license with Candian high standard, and then have to work in MacDonald and flip burgers or work on the ramp for a year or more to have a chance to fly a single engine and log SIC. can you please clarify for me how towing planes and not flying for so long makes us a considerable candidate? the reason behind this slavery is company guys know we are desperate for a job and they know they can do whatever they want to us.
---------- ADS -----------
  

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: New Pilots

Post by AuxBatOn »

Two words: Supply/Demand
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

montado wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:14 am
Yes I would say Canada has a pilot shortage. However companies are not giving a free ride to everyone. Air Canada is PFO'ing plenty of qualified pilots when apparently they are short hundreds on paper. Don't let the shortage fool you. Treat every interview as if 100 people are lined up behind you for only one position to be filled.

It's a good problem to have, this shortage. It opens many doors for every pilot. However don't let it make you complacent. I think every airline would rather park a plane than have the wrong person sitting up front.
I totally agree with you, the plane should be grounded rather than having the wrong person on controls, but could you please tell me how, working on the ramp making me a better pilot? Anyways thanks for the answer, and I will take your advice of not letting this shortage fool me. I wish someone could tell me what should I do other than instructor rating way.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

fish4life wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:34 am
There is a shortage of EXPERIENCED pilots not freshly licensed ones. Offering to pay for training isn’t going to help your situation either
If someone gives us a chance to fly we will be experienced pilots. Can you please tell me how I can get the experience? instructing ? working as rampy? what if someone is not a good instructor? or doesn't have enough money to do instructor rating? how the pilot in waiting making my 250 hours valuable?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

ditar wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
Back in the day I got a job flying a Caravan with only 1000 hours and I thought I had won the lottery. Now everyone thinks they’re entitled to fly a 705 jet with the same. Times have sure changed.
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

Loner wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:10 pm
Maybe you should ask your questions to the school that sold you the dream...
Start a road trip handing your résumé. On paper your odds are very low but face to face who knows, someone may see potential
Good luck in your search but leave entitlement attitude (if any) at the door
[/quote
Everyone told me to forget about being pilot. I got my license, I did, it was my best accomplishment, and I love it. I will try to do that door to door, thanks.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

AuxBatOn wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:21 pm
Two words: Supply/Demand
Tow words for success in aviation: Dual Citizenship
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2639
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: New Pilots

Post by digits_ »

Sean Brown wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 pm
ditar wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
Back in the day I got a job flying a Caravan with only 1000 hours and I thought I had won the lottery. Now everyone thinks they’re entitled to fly a 705 jet with the same. Times have sure changed.
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
Why don't you fly "BACK HOME" then, wherever that might be? If that's where the jobs are, why not go there?

If Canada's a dead end for you, try somewhere else, if you have that option.
---------- ADS -----------
  
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship

AuxBatOn
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: North America, sometimes

Re: New Pilots

Post by AuxBatOn »

You are one obtuse person... My only citizenship is Canadian and I fare pretty good in Aviation. Opportunities are there. Put your sense of entitlement aside, roll up your sleeve and get ready for hardwork.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Going for the deck at corner

Diadem
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: A sigma left of the top of the bell curve

Re: New Pilots

Post by Diadem »

Sean Brown wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 pm
ditar wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
Back in the day I got a job flying a Caravan with only 1000 hours and I thought I had won the lottery. Now everyone thinks they’re entitled to fly a 705 jet with the same. Times have sure changed.
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
Times haven't changed that much. Experience levels are dropping, but there is still no shortage of fresh CPLs; regionals are taking 1000-hour pilots, not 200-hour pilots, and companies will continue to take the most experienced pilots they can. They aren't grounding flights due to lack of crews and then sitting there baffled as to why they don't have any pilots, they understand exactly what kind of hiring market we're in now.The operators to which you're applying have probably gone from hiring 1500-hour pilots a couple of years ago to hiring 500-hour pilots now, but they still don't have to stoop to taking fresh graduates. It might happen eventually, but until that time they can afford to overlook you. You don't have anything that literally a thousand other pilots have, and nothing guarantees you a job when you start your training. Canada is a different market and a different environment than the rest of the world, and you'd better accept that and change your attitude, because the world isn't going to change to accommodate you; I know plenty of people who gave up on flying without ever finding work because it didn't meet their exacting requirements. Accept that you're worthless, and do something to raise your worth. Find a way to get hours, get an instructor rating, or suck it up and work the ramp. The best way to get a job in aviation is through personal contacts, because an internal reference can be far more valuable than any amount of flying experience you might have, but with your attitude there might not be anyone willing to vouch for you or give you a chance without proving yourself first. You can rail against it all you want on the internet, but at the end of the day you won't be any further ahead.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sean Brown
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Sean Brown »

digits_ wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:08 pm
Sean Brown wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 pm
ditar wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:25 pm
Back in the day I got a job flying a Caravan with only 1000 hours and I thought I had won the lottery. Now everyone thinks they’re entitled to fly a 705 jet with the same. Times have sure changed.
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
Why don't you fly "BACK HOME" then, wherever that might be? If that's where the jobs are, why not go there?

If Canada's a dead end for you, try somewhere else, if you have that option.
I love Canda. You guys like: I didn't get easy so everyone has to have it hard.I have the qualification of flying a plane, although my hours are low, I think big carers understood this and lowered their requirements, small carer in the other hand still trying to keep t as it was old days.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Loner
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Loner »

Sean Brown wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 pm
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
Remind me please: how many hours (at hiring) that German pilot had who locked the cockpit door and drove the A320 into the ground?
Right...less than 600
I am not trying to be sarcastic but in Canada our path to reach the airlines might be slower/tougher to attain but that provides references to the pilot for the next job that he/she is not a nut case with psychological issues leading to tragedies. Yes, you have a certificate and diploma and probably are a good pilot but that doesn’t suffice. Attitude is a cornerstone of a good Aviator.
---------- ADS -----------
  

TG
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1677
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:32 am
Location: Around

Re: New Pilots

Post by TG »

Loner wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am
Sean Brown wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:40 pm
yes, the time has changed, but companies don't want to understand that.Those, our foreign friends, and classmates who got the license and college diploma with us are flying ATRs, q400 , or A320 BACK HOME !! it means they became better pilots, not being a Canadian citizen.
Remind me please: how many hours (at hiring) that German pilot had who locked the cockpit door and drove the A320 into the ground?
Right...less than 600
I am not trying to be sarcastic but in Canada our path to reach the airlines might be slower/tougher to attain but that provides references to the pilot for the next job that he/she is not a nut case with psychological issues leading to tragedies. Yes, you have a certificate and diploma and probably are a good pilot but that doesn’t suffice. Attitude is a cornerstone of a good Aviator.
Total flight time had nothing to do with this Germanwing mass murder (nut)case.
Google Silkair flight 185 if you don’t believe me.


Things just works differently.
In Europe there is very little “small aviation” to built up your time. So they compensate this lack of flying experience by a strong level of theory to get an ATPL.

It’s the other way around in North America. Lots of ways to build up your flying experience but a very weak ATP theory. Hence this requirement of... flying experience to be able to fly an airliner.
(Not talking about guys or gals out of military in both cases)
---------- ADS -----------
  

Loner
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:14 pm

Re: New Pilots

Post by Loner »

TG wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:13 am
So they compensate this lack of flying experience by a strong level of theory to get an ATPL.

It’s the other way around in North America. Lots of ways to build up your flying experience but a very weak ATP theory. Hence this requirement of... flying experience to be able to fly an airliner.
(Not talking about guys or gals out of military in both cases)
I hold JAAR FCL, FAA and TC licenses, books do not “compensate” for lack of experience. My 2 cents...
Sean’s complaint/incomprehension was that “back home” you might be at the helm of an ATR, A320 or else with little or no experience while in Canada you have to build experience.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Air.Field
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:52 am

Re: New Pilots

Post by Air.Field »

I had to check the date of this thread, thinking it was from 2007... not 2017
---------- ADS -----------
  

fish4life
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1740
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:32 am

Re: New Pilots

Post by fish4life »

You seem very entitled and it’s probably a big reason you won’t get a job. I hope you realize that almost every first job flying requires you to do more than just flying. If I was looking to hire you I wouldn’t have any confidence that you would crawl under the plane on some muddy sloppy parking spot to unload bags from the pod or after spending a night on a reserve spend 3 hours shovelling snow away from the plane. Flying up north involves a lot more than flying, I can’t count the number of times I’ve had to come up with a plan and a solution to a problem that had nothing to do with actually flying the airplane. These are some of the reasons companies get guys to work the ramp, it might not make them a better pilot but if they see someone that just bitches and whines anytime something doesn’t go smoothly then they don’t want them to be problem solving up north.
---------- ADS -----------
  

DanWEC
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1631
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:05 pm
Location: 404

Re: New Pilots

Post by DanWEC »

Can’t for the life of me figure out why nobody would hire you, maybe you made the mistake of letting your personality come out...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Employment Forum”