No paint? good god!!

scabber · Post by **scabber** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:22 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20051110/wl ... 1110163858

Who would want to work for a company that can't even afford paint!

Juggs · Post by **Juggs** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:36 pm

Who knows? American Airline's planes look pretty sharp in polished aluminum. Didn't Trans Canada Airlines have polished aluminum airplanes?

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:39 pm

American airlines, uses this technique as well. that said the filling, and paint can make for a smoother overall airframe, as witnessed by the f15 eagle records aircraft. Northwest doesn't paint the belly on it's cargo birds saving weight. As a pax how would you like an aircraft, that is sure to look like hell unless they keep up the polishing regime. how many man hours a year would that cost. don't worry they'll outsource it to Bombay. Just check your pitot/static ports on the walkaround.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:41 pm

scabber wrote:
Who would want to work for a company that can't even afford paint!

ROFL, maybe you should post it in the AC thread and see how many go running and screaming for the hills.

The only "effect" that it might have is it might deter people from flying with them, oh wait they're a monopoly... Guess you're stuck flying in a plane that's stripped...

Hopefully all the new planes on order COME without PAINT.. Seeing as all their "fuel savings" are going out the window, because those paint jobs aren't $24,000 or whatever they're projected to save....

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:54 pm

Didn't they just repaint their planes after coming out of bankruptcy protection? Must be nice to throw so much money around in the name of saving money...

They can just get Celine Dion to sing them another song and the paint will just peel off.

tdawe · Post by **tdawe** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:10 pm

Maybe if you repaint the planes enough times people will forget which airline they are acctually on, and wont feel so bad that thier gov. is constantly bailing big red/big toothpaste/hi ho silver out every time they cant make the bottom line.

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:11 pm

I read somewhere that the extra corrosion prevention actually costs the same as paint. American only does it to keep the "classic" look hey have.

Looking at how often AC washes the fleet I cannot see polished skin looking any better.

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:21 pm

Edo wrote:I read somewhere that the extra corrosion prevention actually costs the same as paint. American only does it to keep the "classic" look hey have.

They aren't looking to save money on paint, only on the weight of the paint, which from the article says 360 lbs, which I find surprisingly low.

WJflyer · Post by **WJflyer** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:28 pm

Stripping the paint away saves money when it comes to burning fuel, but it is hell on the maintenance. At American Airlines, they save money on fuel, but the savings on fuel costs is outweighed by the increased cost on maintenance, as they need more people to polish the airplanes, and do more frequent checks to find rust or corrosion. It's a tradeoff.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:05 pm

How do you polish those plastic airbuses?? Bare metal was more of a wartime method to save weight, and since the planes rarely lasted long enough to corrode, it wasn't needed anyway.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:09 pm

The real joke about this is...........whatever fuel they think they are gonna save will be more than pissed away waiting to be parked at gates in YYZ. If saving fuel is a big item for them, then they should start by getting rid of parking crews and with proper gate guidance systems, allow the flight crews to park themselves, like Heathrow.

Of course the new mission statement at HQ these days seems to be spend a dime, save a nickle.

WJflyer · Post by **WJflyer** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:10 pm

Inverted2 wrote:How do you polish those plastic airbuses?? Bare metal was more of a wartime method to save weight, and since the planes rarely lasted long enough to corrode, it wasn't needed anyway.

What American did for their A300's was to paint the tail grey (now done to all American Airlines jets), and order special aluminium panels for the jets.

twinpratts · Post by **twinpratts** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:02 am

24K a year in saved fuel? What a great idea!

EI-EIO · Post by **EI-EIO** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:21 am

Inverted

I imagine the 787 people have an answer to your "what do you paint plastic with" question, given the fuselage is made in an oven (hopefully not 'half-baked" - I might fly on an AC 787 someday!)

Blackchang · Post by **Blackchang** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:37 am

Its a great idea, but not a new one. If you look at most of the freight carriers like Flying Tigers ( I know they're not around anymore) and the freight counterparts of airlines like NWest, JAL, ANA, etc. They realize that less paint makes sense from a pure accounting point of view, plus in many cases it looks pretty attractive. Paint on an aircraft weighs more than 360 lbs but Air Canada is'nt proposing taking it all off, just a portion of it. I expect Westjet would consider doing the same eventually but thier fleet in their early days was'nt well suited to bare aluminum (remember the early 737s they had with the highly riveted fuselage sections?)
Many airlines that have bare finishes will still paint the belly a dark color like navy blue or dark grey because this area historically gets pretty dirty with oil and runway slop. Only countries like China can afford the labor to wash airplanes on a regular basis and this job is still done with a bucket and brush.

gr8_2_av8 · Post by **gr8_2_av8** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:21 am

Hopefully they start with those awefull looking baby blue ones. Please tell me those were mistints they got on sale.

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:32 am

"bare" aluminum skins isn't that odd a choice. The cost and weight savings of paint are not negligible.

Also, you would be crazy to make aircraft skins out of aluminum that wasn't clad. As long as you don't wear through the cladding, it's pretty good.

In a very corrosive environment (warm, humid, salty) paint over bare aluminum actually becomes functional, instead of just for appearance's sake.

wingspan · Post by **wingspan** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:24 pm

Maybe they should strip their employees too ! that would save alot of $$$

Wouldn't you want to see an old naked grumpy F/A serving you in first class after you bought your ticket for 960$!

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:22 pm

wingspan wrote:Maybe they should strip their employees too ! that would save alot of $$$

Wouldn't you want to see an old naked grumpy F/A serving you in first class after you bought your ticket for 960$!

Yeah but it's worth it when you catch a seat sale and see one of their cuties.

Machiavelli · Post by **Machiavelli** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:37 pm

"These days spend a dime save a nickel bla bla bla..." there Jacques? I'd like to know when it wasn't that way at ol' ACE or Air Canada or Jazz or Zip or Tango.

The shit leopards haven't changed there spots yet...

Stripping that "blue" is actually the best idea to come out of ACE HQ in a long time.

cyxe · Post by **cyxe** » Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:40 pm

Personally, I think it could look pretty slick.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/937305/L/

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:08 am

Machiavelli wrote:"These days spend a dime save a nickel bla bla bla..." there Jacques? I'd like to know when it wasn't that way at ol' ACE or Air Canada or Jazz or Zip or Tango.

The shit leopards haven't changed there spots yet...

Stripping that "blue" is actually the best idea to come out of ACE HQ in a long time.

I can't wait till the next TPB season! Oh how I miss those guys.

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:15 am

I think the polished metal with the light blue tails will look pretty good. What's all the bitching about?

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:40 am

All Metros come from the factory with wings, engine nacelles and horizontal stab unpainted. Better lightning strike protection that way. Most corperate Merlins are painted and they do not perform as well as the naked Metros when operated at the same weight. Full paint was an option on all Cessna airplanes until the early 60's. Otherwise, you got a bare unpainted airplane with only fuselage speed lines painted on. Looked sharp when painted but hard to keep clean.

scabber · Post by **scabber** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:00 am

I am sure it will look slick, that is not the point.

The point is, that AC is thinking of doing it to save money, which, in my opinion is ridiculous.

No paint? good god!!

No paint? good god!!

Re: No paint? good god!!

its good