Tomorrow is the Big Day in Parliament, thought we should have something about that.
I would of did a poll but it's not cooperating. So Does anyone mind if there is a December election? People are saying its not an issue because it only takes one day to vote. Also, the party in Office should not even be there, right now. They have no moral authority and they don't deserve anymore time to buy votes, to campaign, and pull some tricks.
A real Leader would push for an election now and Canadians better get their heads out of the gutter and pay attention.
Tomorrow is D-Day
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
Tomorrow is D-Day
Last edited by Chantal on Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
''Save Our Troops let them leave Afghanistan''. - Neil Osborne and a few friends
No politician wants to cause a Christmas election. They will be immediately demonized by the public for spoiling their Christmas vacation. On top of that, it takes considerable effort on the part of the election officials and party officials to campaign in a election. I was part of the BC NDP election team when we went to the polls, and it was a lot of work.
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Re: Tomorrow is D-Day
What, and have the Conservatives attack him for not keeping his promise to wait until after the second Gommery report?Chantal wrote:A real Leader would push for an election now and Canadians better get heads out of the gutter and pay attention.
(you may think this is rediculous, but I'd bet a fair amount of money it would come up at least once in an election if Martin called it)
Second Gomery report will be more of the same. Paul Martin's promise to call an election 30 days after the report is Stupid and meaningless. Everyone thinks that Liberals are the only government but they are not and thats only because they been there for 12 years. Think outside the Box.
''Save Our Troops let them leave Afghanistan''. - Neil Osborne and a few friends
-
Right Seat Captain
- Rank Moderator
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:51 pm
- Location: Various/based CYOW
-
wrenchturner
- Rank 4
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:05 pm
Just remember how screwed up the country was after Mulroney was done with it. And what about the kickback scandals with Airbus from the Air Canada purchases. Martin isn't the first crooked politician this country has ever seen, and he won't be the last. I think we're better off with him than Harper. There's something about Harper that I wouldn't trust him to run the country either. At least we know where Martin stands.
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Ah, we have a clairvoyant!Chantal wrote:Second Gomery report will be more of the same.
Well, if you say so.Paul Martin's promise to call an election 30 days after the report is Stupid and meaningless.
Provide even one iota of evidence to support your claim and I'll leave you alone, but until then you're guilty of massive over-simplification and attributing thoughts to a rather large group of people that presumably don't share a single mind.Everyone thinks that Liberals are the only government but they are not and thats only because they been there for 12 years. Think outside the Box.
And before you continue the "afraid of change" argument, may I remind you that the Conservatives are the party that tend to campaign on the "traditional values" platform?
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
It's a shame that this is what it comes down to, but I agree. I don't want to support the Liberals, but I cannot bring myself to cast a vote that may help Stephen Harper become the leader of this country. I'm not a fan of the NDP, so maybe I'll go Green for this one.wrenchturner wrote:I think we're better off with him than Harper..
Re: Tomorrow is D-Day
Voter turnout,Chantal wrote: and Canadians better get their heads out of the gutter and pay attention.
40% in Ontario
90% in East and West.
-
Dust Devil
- Rank 11
- Posts: 4027
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:55 am
- Location: Riderville
Anyone who not only whines about a christmas campaign but also condones the coming deamonizing of the opposition parties for pushing for a christmas campaign should think back to the day of rememberance we just had and think about how much of an inconvenience that was for them. Also anyone who doesn't get out and vote should also be ashamed of themselves.
-
Flying Low
- Rank 8
- Posts: 928
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:22 pm
- Location: Northern Ontario...why change now?
NO...YOU ARE NOT BETTER OFF WITH MARTIN.
A vote for the liberals condones their behaviour!
Vote for anyone else. Pick the best of the worst of whoever is left. If the next government lies to us...then vote for someone else in the elction after this one.
This is the only way to get the politicians to be honest with us. If a politician lies to us...NEVER vote for that person again.
Remember...these people are eligible for a full pension after two terms. If they lie in term one...get rid of them...never to be elected again!
If we do this...election after election...THEY WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH ON!
Why on earth would any politician (liberal, conservative or anyone else) care about telling us the truth if we re-elect them anyway.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not reinforce bad behaviour!
A vote for the liberals condones their behaviour!
Vote for anyone else. Pick the best of the worst of whoever is left. If the next government lies to us...then vote for someone else in the elction after this one.
This is the only way to get the politicians to be honest with us. If a politician lies to us...NEVER vote for that person again.
Remember...these people are eligible for a full pension after two terms. If they lie in term one...get rid of them...never to be elected again!
If we do this...election after election...THEY WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH ON!
Why on earth would any politician (liberal, conservative or anyone else) care about telling us the truth if we re-elect them anyway.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not reinforce bad behaviour!
"The ability to ditch an airplane in the Hudson does not qualify a pilot for a pay raise. The ability to get the pilots, with this ability, to work for 30% or 40% pay cuts qualifies those in management for millions in bonuses."
Thank you Flying low!!!!
If you vote liberal, you're an idiot. Plain and simple!!!
If you are an employer and catch your employees stealing from you, you kick their ass right out the door. This Country is fucked up!!!!! We have a leader in Paul Martin who has changed his stance so many times; I don't know what he stands for, other than getting elected by any means possible. The Liberals re-announce spending for things all the times (ie: cretin – new money is new money, blah blah blah). They announced their new immigration policy today, who’s vote is that buying. RING RING RING people, it’s the same policy they have been announcing with such fanfare for the last 12 years, they just never do it. Its classic liberal.
We have a government that has wasted billions of dollars of "OUR" hard earned money. Think of that the next time you look at your pay stub. But let’s put the scandal aside, even though I believe that more than warrants kicking them out.
This government has everyone brainwashed that a surplus is a sign of government fiscal responsibility. When he brings in 5 billion surpluses, there are numerous problems with this. 1. Where as if the government had reduced waste, that surplus would be closer to 10 Billion, he uses the surplus as a way out of being responsible 2. A reduction in taxes would see that money stay in the wallets of taxpayers which would lead to increased consumer spending and economic growth. 3. What I can’t figure out, for all these years of surplus, why is Healthcare in such a mess, why is our military falling apart, why do we have a immigration system with more holes in it than Swiss cheese, why are we falling behind the rest of the world in education, why is our Cities crumbling with outdated infrastructure, why do we continue to hold onto old, outdated and unworkable policies such as the Indian Act. Why?
Why after 12 years of Liberal government, are things so messed up?
I am both fiscally and socially conservative, I am not religious, and I don’t go to church, yet I get branded as a religious fanatic. I believe in the right to abortion, but I am not particularly happy with gay marriage.
It is my core values that lead me to vote Conservative. I always have and I always will. Just as I believe there are liberals and NDP’ers who will always vote for their party. The people that give me concern, are the ones who, lets say, vote conservative, and then maybe switch to the NDP or vice versa. Do you really know who you’re voting for? These are the type of voters that are won over by single election promises. For example: cheaper car insurance, with no real understanding of who they are voting for
I would like to clear something up. What is it about Harper that you are afraid of. I will agree, he is not a charismatic person, (the opposite of that, you get someone like Bill Clinton, and please, can anyone tell me anything he accomplished, yet he remains very popular). But seriously, I would like to hear what you think he will do, that scares you so much?
Floats
P.S. I briefly edited for errors, such as there, they’re, their etc but personally if there is mistakes, I don’t give a rats ass
If you vote liberal, you're an idiot. Plain and simple!!!
If you are an employer and catch your employees stealing from you, you kick their ass right out the door. This Country is fucked up!!!!! We have a leader in Paul Martin who has changed his stance so many times; I don't know what he stands for, other than getting elected by any means possible. The Liberals re-announce spending for things all the times (ie: cretin – new money is new money, blah blah blah). They announced their new immigration policy today, who’s vote is that buying. RING RING RING people, it’s the same policy they have been announcing with such fanfare for the last 12 years, they just never do it. Its classic liberal.
We have a government that has wasted billions of dollars of "OUR" hard earned money. Think of that the next time you look at your pay stub. But let’s put the scandal aside, even though I believe that more than warrants kicking them out.
This government has everyone brainwashed that a surplus is a sign of government fiscal responsibility. When he brings in 5 billion surpluses, there are numerous problems with this. 1. Where as if the government had reduced waste, that surplus would be closer to 10 Billion, he uses the surplus as a way out of being responsible 2. A reduction in taxes would see that money stay in the wallets of taxpayers which would lead to increased consumer spending and economic growth. 3. What I can’t figure out, for all these years of surplus, why is Healthcare in such a mess, why is our military falling apart, why do we have a immigration system with more holes in it than Swiss cheese, why are we falling behind the rest of the world in education, why is our Cities crumbling with outdated infrastructure, why do we continue to hold onto old, outdated and unworkable policies such as the Indian Act. Why?
Why after 12 years of Liberal government, are things so messed up?
I am both fiscally and socially conservative, I am not religious, and I don’t go to church, yet I get branded as a religious fanatic. I believe in the right to abortion, but I am not particularly happy with gay marriage.
It is my core values that lead me to vote Conservative. I always have and I always will. Just as I believe there are liberals and NDP’ers who will always vote for their party. The people that give me concern, are the ones who, lets say, vote conservative, and then maybe switch to the NDP or vice versa. Do you really know who you’re voting for? These are the type of voters that are won over by single election promises. For example: cheaper car insurance, with no real understanding of who they are voting for
I would like to clear something up. What is it about Harper that you are afraid of. I will agree, he is not a charismatic person, (the opposite of that, you get someone like Bill Clinton, and please, can anyone tell me anything he accomplished, yet he remains very popular). But seriously, I would like to hear what you think he will do, that scares you so much?
Floats
P.S. I briefly edited for errors, such as there, they’re, their etc but personally if there is mistakes, I don’t give a rats ass
Vote for anyone except a Liberal. If recent events haven't convinced you of that, well, there's not much hope for you.
As someone else observed, governments are like diapers - you need to change them every once in a while, otherwise things start to smell.
I wish someone would ask Paul Martin this question:
Next observation: Paul Martin, as Finance Minister was de facto CFO of the government which Judge Gomery is currently reporting on.
Why is the public sector held to such a lower standard by the taxpayer?
Do you sheep like paying too much tax, or what?
As someone else observed, governments are like diapers - you need to change them every once in a while, otherwise things start to smell.
I wish someone would ask Paul Martin this question:
The answer, of course, is yes - the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) would of course be responsible, and would be canned in the private sector.Mr Martin, let's say one of your companies was found to be corruptly run - money was being embezzled on a grand scale. Would you fire the CFO?
Next observation: Paul Martin, as Finance Minister was de facto CFO of the government which Judge Gomery is currently reporting on.
Why is the public sector held to such a lower standard by the taxpayer?
Do you sheep like paying too much tax, or what?
-
marktheone
- Rank 7
- Posts: 719
- Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:07 am
- Location: An airplane.
Harper's face is not in the press enough so people think he is scary. It's ridiculous. Whatever we do we need to get rid of the Liberallies. Won't happen though because of bloody Ontario.
What the hell are we doing trying to run a country from the extreme of one coast anyways? A country this size needs to be run from the geographical centre. There is now way to effectively run it from the east coast.
What the hell are we doing trying to run a country from the extreme of one coast anyways? A country this size needs to be run from the geographical centre. There is now way to effectively run it from the east coast.
Sheesh... Nobody is good enough these days it seems... 
Klein has become law all to himself:
Fall legislature sitting will see premier in Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax
EDMONTON JOURNAL
11/15/2005
Who does this guy think he is?
He's acting like a government bully, thumbing his nose at the opposition parties and ruling as if the majority of people voted for him even though they didn't.
The way he's carrying on, you'd think we lived in a dictatorship.
I am talking, of course, about Premier Ralph Klein.
Why, who did you think I was referring to?
As the legislative assembly prepares to open for the fall sitting today, Klein has made it clear he will not be looking for advice or debate from the opposition on how he spends the lion's share of the province's budget surplus this year -- a surplus that could be as high as $8 billion, according to some estimates.
Three days have been set aside to debate legislation needed for the $400 rebate cheques.
As Klein recently told reporters, "The annual budget is a matter for the opposition. The unbudgeted surplus is a matter for government."
Or, put another way, the government's plans to spend the surplus "is not a matter for the opposition."
But it is. The legislature is the final arbiter of how the money should be spent. Not Ralph Klein.
It might be a moot point when dealing with a majority government (that only captured 47 per cent of the vote) but there is still a point here nonetheless.
Having said that, you have to wonder sometimes why we in Alberta even bother to have a legislative session.
The government makes all the important decisions behind closed doors and does its best to sideline, ignore or just plain browbeat the opposition into irrelevance.
Not that it devotes much time or energy to the opposition -- or the session.
Even though the sitting starts today, don't be surprised if it's wrapped up before the first day of December.
That would be 10 legislative sitting days. Klein might be around for six of them.
The last time we had a fall sitting was in 2003. It lasted 10 days and Klein showed up to four of them.
Back then Klein was away travelling to Ontario to make a speech to the Canadian Club in Ottawa and then on to London to open a trade office.
He said he couldn't back out of the trips because they had been made long in advance.
This time he'll be making speeches in Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax as part of his don't-hate-us-Albertans-for-being-rich tour.
He'll also miss a day of the sitting by taking part in the first ministers' conference on aboriginal affairs in Kelowna.
Missing the session for a first ministers' conference is understandable and unavoidable.
However, purposefully scheduling those other out-of-town trips is a slap in the face to the legislature and by extension to every Albertan who cares about our system of parliamentary democracy.
When reporters pressed Klein back in 2003 to explain why he would miss so much of the fall sitting, he bluntly responded that he was tired of the opposition.
"Their whole performance depends on whether they can grill me and try to embarrass me and to ask me stupid questions to which I'm expected to give intelligent answers," he said.
In 2003, the "stupid questions" from the opposition dealt with unfair auto insurance rates, bungled electricity deregulation and government interference in the City Centre Airport debate.
In 2005, the "stupid questions" deal with the government's pursuit of private health care and real estate deals in Fort McMurray that saw valuable crown land given to developers for free.
Stupid questions and intelligent answers?
Or is it the other way around?
By the way, the Alberta assembly has sat for 42 days so far this year.
It'll probably end up sitting for around 50 days -- a typical year for the Alberta legislative assembly. Typical for other provincial legislatures is 70 days or more.
In Ottawa, the House of Commons routinely sits for 125 days.
And Ottawa, don't forget, is headquarters of the "democratic deficit."
It makes you wonder what kinds of words Stephen Harper and Jack Layton would use to describe Prime Minister Paul Martin if he had the Commons sit for only 50 days a year.
You can almost hear them complaining: who does this guy think he is -- Ralph Klein?
Klein has become law all to himself:
Fall legislature sitting will see premier in Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax
EDMONTON JOURNAL
11/15/2005
Who does this guy think he is?
He's acting like a government bully, thumbing his nose at the opposition parties and ruling as if the majority of people voted for him even though they didn't.
The way he's carrying on, you'd think we lived in a dictatorship.
I am talking, of course, about Premier Ralph Klein.
Why, who did you think I was referring to?
As the legislative assembly prepares to open for the fall sitting today, Klein has made it clear he will not be looking for advice or debate from the opposition on how he spends the lion's share of the province's budget surplus this year -- a surplus that could be as high as $8 billion, according to some estimates.
Three days have been set aside to debate legislation needed for the $400 rebate cheques.
As Klein recently told reporters, "The annual budget is a matter for the opposition. The unbudgeted surplus is a matter for government."
Or, put another way, the government's plans to spend the surplus "is not a matter for the opposition."
But it is. The legislature is the final arbiter of how the money should be spent. Not Ralph Klein.
It might be a moot point when dealing with a majority government (that only captured 47 per cent of the vote) but there is still a point here nonetheless.
Having said that, you have to wonder sometimes why we in Alberta even bother to have a legislative session.
The government makes all the important decisions behind closed doors and does its best to sideline, ignore or just plain browbeat the opposition into irrelevance.
Not that it devotes much time or energy to the opposition -- or the session.
Even though the sitting starts today, don't be surprised if it's wrapped up before the first day of December.
That would be 10 legislative sitting days. Klein might be around for six of them.
The last time we had a fall sitting was in 2003. It lasted 10 days and Klein showed up to four of them.
Back then Klein was away travelling to Ontario to make a speech to the Canadian Club in Ottawa and then on to London to open a trade office.
He said he couldn't back out of the trips because they had been made long in advance.
This time he'll be making speeches in Ottawa, Quebec City and Halifax as part of his don't-hate-us-Albertans-for-being-rich tour.
He'll also miss a day of the sitting by taking part in the first ministers' conference on aboriginal affairs in Kelowna.
Missing the session for a first ministers' conference is understandable and unavoidable.
However, purposefully scheduling those other out-of-town trips is a slap in the face to the legislature and by extension to every Albertan who cares about our system of parliamentary democracy.
When reporters pressed Klein back in 2003 to explain why he would miss so much of the fall sitting, he bluntly responded that he was tired of the opposition.
"Their whole performance depends on whether they can grill me and try to embarrass me and to ask me stupid questions to which I'm expected to give intelligent answers," he said.
In 2003, the "stupid questions" from the opposition dealt with unfair auto insurance rates, bungled electricity deregulation and government interference in the City Centre Airport debate.
In 2005, the "stupid questions" deal with the government's pursuit of private health care and real estate deals in Fort McMurray that saw valuable crown land given to developers for free.
Stupid questions and intelligent answers?
Or is it the other way around?
By the way, the Alberta assembly has sat for 42 days so far this year.
It'll probably end up sitting for around 50 days -- a typical year for the Alberta legislative assembly. Typical for other provincial legislatures is 70 days or more.
In Ottawa, the House of Commons routinely sits for 125 days.
And Ottawa, don't forget, is headquarters of the "democratic deficit."
It makes you wonder what kinds of words Stephen Harper and Jack Layton would use to describe Prime Minister Paul Martin if he had the Commons sit for only 50 days a year.
You can almost hear them complaining: who does this guy think he is -- Ralph Klein?
Yeah, I gotta feel sorry for those poor Albertans. Pretty tough times for them. They obviously need better government to help them, like what we have in Ottawa right now.
BAAAHAAHAHHAAHAHHHAAHAHHHAAAHA!
I'm sorry, I just peed my pants laughing. You'll have to excuse me now.
BAAAHAAHAHHAAHAHHHAAHAHHHAAAHA!
I'm sorry, I just peed my pants laughing. You'll have to excuse me now.
How come he was exonerated in this report? As a Finance minister, he's involved in budgets and all that therefore he's part of the sponsorship. However he thinks he's been cleared, no one can touch him, and he should be prime minister, I don't think so!Next observation: Paul Martin, as Finance Minister was de facto CFO of the government which Judge Gomery is currently reporting on.
''Save Our Troops let them leave Afghanistan''. - Neil Osborne and a few friends
exonerated? well technically he was. Gomery can only present what he can prove as fact. There in no document that says Martin knew about it, or no one in martins circle is willing to testify that Martin knew about it. Well therefore Gomery can't say he did. He can't present speculation
Floats
Floats
I heard from a friend's cousin's buddy's uncle in the Liberal party that says Steven Harper eats babies for breakfast, so we shouldn't vote for the Conservatives.I would still like to hear what Harper will do that scares you so much
But seriously, folks ... one must wonder why someone as intelligent as Steven Harper wastes his time on such a silly country as Canada. Face it, if brains were dynamite, the average Canadian voter wouldn't be able to blow his nose without a government subsidy and a royal inquiry.
-
costermonger
- Rank 8
- Posts: 881
- Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:52 pm
Well, "scare" is the wrong word for it. 99% of what I hear from Harper is "Liberals this, Liberals that" and the 1% of the time he actually talks about what he'd like to do if in charge, well, I don't agree with, never have.Floats wrote:I would still like to hear what Harper will do that scares you so much
You guys may love him, good on you, your choice. I'm not going to be voting for him, simple as that, because (a) seldom does he stop bellyaching long enough to talk about policy and (b) when he does I agree with almost none of it.
I can forgive (a) because that's more or less his job, but (b) is what prevents me from considering supporting him.
