bolton lake air service quick thinking

[Juice's Nightmare]

This past Thursday in a Piper Navajo at Berens River, during the landing flare, the Bolton Lake pilot rejected his landing after the props struck the runway several times and initiated a go-around. It was discovered at that moment he had forgot to put the landing gear down.
Me thinks that after whacking the shit out of the props and likely inducing engine damage on both sides I would have continued the landing rather than putting 4 passengers and my life betting the motors will continue to operate as advertised.
And they want to operate a King Air.....

[Rudy]

Sorry but your post rubbed me the wrong way. You put the companies name in big caps. You come down on a pilot that made a mistake and say how you would have done it better. Then, you get one last dig in about them wanting to operate a king air. Piss poor man.

[el dooberino]

past the forgotten gear, maybe thats how good he is at pulling it out of the fire

[flyincanuck]

What's the saying? There are two types of pilots?

Those who have landed with the gear up, and those that will?

[desksgo]

Agreed, Rudy.

You're a little worm, Juice.

[el dooberino]

Juices Nightmare,


does your name mean you are the poster boy for the horrible side effects of steroid use?



Angry! GRRRRR! Small testis!!

[Springbok]

No Desks, He is half a worm. A worm still has some use.

Well done to the Mod who added "quick thinking" to the original post.

[Wally3Wheels]

Sure it may of been safer to just plow it on...but unfortunately, in some cases when the pilot realize's the error that's been made and applies power, they don't think they've touched. As they're going around they're say Holy S*&$ that was close won't do that again!

I know a crew that did this in a King Air, they realized what they forgot in the flare, powered up and went around. They thought they were in the clear, went around, landed, pulled in and parked on the ramp. Sad to say as the engines spun down the props had curly tips. To this day they still swear there was no vibration.

[ditshisturber]

It could happen to anyone! If you are single pilot you can double your chances... no, tripple your chances of forgetting when things get busy. Bigger, shiner airplanes have done the same (Canada Jet's Citation in YZP a while ago comes to mind) Instead of berrating the situation, learn from it. Somewhere and somehow all the holes lined up perfectly for this unfortunate incident. At least the end result led to folks walking away instead of being carried away.

[flyincanuck]

I hate swiss cheese. It leaves a bad after-taste...

[CCnCoke]

Transport Canada did this exact thing a few years ago in a King Air. Went to land at Gatineau, clipped the props then promptly went around, flew OVER the city of Ottawa and then landed at Ottawa.

[Captain Crunch]

What's the saying? There are two types of pilots?

Those who have landed with the gear up, and those that will?

Thats intelligent, I believe the two types of pilots are, those that are good, and those that are so good, they never have to prove how good they really are...

[flyinhigh]

The saying that I heard when I was doing my training was,
There are 2 types of pilots the ones that have crashed, and the ones that are going to crash.
I don't like that saying at all

[Scuba_Steve]

Shit I think I would have had the same reaction as this guy, my hats off to him for getting the rig on the ground safely. MAYBE it would have been a better idea to just let her pile in, but hey if you can weight your options like that while in the flare with the A/C settling on its keel then you are a better man than I.

Cheers

[flyincanuck]

What's the saying? There are two types of pilots?

Those who have landed with the gear up, and those that will?

Thats intelligent, I believe the two types of pilots are, those that are good, and those that are so good, they never have to prove how good they really are...

Touché, but you must have heard that saying at least once before in the training days.

[Wally3Wheels]

Here's the TC incident for their King Air bump and go...

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/200 ... 0h0007.asp


...Aviation Investigation Report
Gear-Up Landing
Department of Transport Aircraft Services
Beechcraft King Air A100 C-FDOU
Ottawa/Gatineau Airport, Quebec
04 December 2000
Report Number A00H0007

Summary
A Transport Canada Beechcraft King Air A100, serial number B-112, with two pilots on board, departed from the Ottawa/McDonald-Cartier International Airport, Ontario, on a visual flight rules training flight. The aircraft proceeded to Ottawa/Gatineau Airport, Quebec, to conduct practice visual approaches and landings. At approximately 1430 eastern standard time, a visual circuit and approach to runway 27 was flown with the left engine at low power, simulating an engine failure. The landing gear was not lowered before landing, and the aft fuselage and both propellers contacted the runway surface. The captain initiated a successful go-around, declared an emergency, and subsequently landed the aircraft at Ottawa/McDonald-Cartier International Airport. There were no injuries. The aircraft was substantially damaged. ...

[mculshaw]

Same thing happened in Brantford in an Aztec with 2 TC folks.
4" frm tips on both props were bent 70-80 degrees back.
The plane sure sounded funny as it was on the overshoot, alot of noise and not much speed. Of course it had to happen on Friday the 13th at about 3pm.

Stupid things always happen late in the afternoon on a Friday.

[Anonymous1]

A simple $2500 solution. Anytime you're below a pre-selected airspeed, a big loud voice comes into your headset saying "GEAR UNSAFE...over and over". Even if you select gear down and then subsequently lose a green, the voice will activate. Most operators will laugh at this and say what a waste of money but it works well and works everytime. Pilots get tired and make mistakes so everything that can be done to help you out should be installed. Check out P2 6000 Gear Audio Advisory search or check out avionix.com ...Its about a 6 hour installation job and worth every penny.

[HavaJava]

One step that would reduce a lot of training related gear-up landings would be to ensure that the gear-warning horn doesn't come on unless BOTH throttles are reduced beyond a certain point.

In most twins, the gear warning horn will come on if either throttle is reduced beyond a certain point. This means that during engine failure training, the gear warning horn is blaring constantly while the "failed" engine is at idle. This leads to the pilots ignoring the horn.

And to compound the problem, pilots are often taught to delay the extension of the gear in an engine failure situation so this means that the pilot is now out of his/her routine and it is even easier to forget the gear.

This type of accident happens more than you might think.

[Anonymous1]

Except the gear warning horn can be difficult to not only hear with noise canceling headsets but can be misinterpreted with the stall horn in the flare. A loud voice in your headset telling you the gear is unsafe is pretty hard to miss. Besides, whose to say you put a gear down, have 3 green but then lose a green inidication short final. The P2 6000 will monitor this for you. It just pisses me off that another insurance claim will now be presented with type "PA31" and I'll be footing part of the bill for something that is so easily prevented for $2500. The question that should be asked is not why did the pilot forget the gear but why were the AC pilots who bought into the company so cheap when they are pilots themselves.

[charlie_g]

Sorry but your post rubbed me the wrong way. You put the companies name in big caps. You come down on a pilot that made a mistake and say how you would have done it better. Then, you get one last dig in about them wanting to operate a king air. Piss poor man.

Don't know if I'm the only one who shares this opinion, but I find the liability paranoia surrounding the mentioning of operators and incidents really irritating.

Assuming someone is not fabricating the incident, what is the problem? Unless you've been living under a rock for the last ten years, you're well aware that the Internet's sources and accounts are dubious at best in many cases. This site is no different. Nobody in their right mind should take anything on this board to the bank.

In my eyes, the only difference between discussing something while hangar flying vs. on this board, is the speed of distribution. Aviation is a small enough business that the stories travel coast to coast and across levels very quickly anyway.

Transport and Nav Canada (or anyone else for that matter) are not going to act on anything read here any or more or less than they would had they heard the stories as a verbal anecdote. And there's enough crossover between pilots and those two that it's going to get relayed one way or another either way.

And finally, there is a difference between an anonymous post that names names vs. a web site hosted by an individual for the specific purpose of slandering someone. So why doesn't everyone relax a bit when it comes to this? I've yet to hear a legal opinion that suggests otherwise.

[bush pilot]

In my company we have a good way of doing it, just before landing we bring the throttles to idle, so if the gear is not down the second the throttle goes below 15" on the Ho or whatever the setting is on the turboprop the horn will go off and it will give us enough time to conduct an overshoot. Works well for us. I also start my checklist with the most pertanant item on the checklist, so for finals I will ask for gear first, if I am not ready for gear then I do not do my checks. Worked so far.

Bush

[Rudy]

Believe me 'charlie_g' I hate today's lawyer fueled atmosphere of fear as much as anyone. My issue wasn't with the posting of the information but with how it was presented. That's what rubbed me the wrong way and I thought that was clear. Maybe I over reacted.

[xsbank]

"Gear Down"
"Landing Check"

works well for 2 - crew.

Bush pilot, if you have the presence of mind to pull the throttles to idle early, every time, why not just check the gear? And could it not be possible that if the engines are idled too soon, you may not have ready power available to counter cross-winds or shear or whatever?

And, I might add, if it is done too soon, you could shock-cool those expensive engines, or at the very least, de-stabilize your approach? And if done too late, you perhaps don't have time to respond in a safe way (We teach low-energy go-arounds in jets, but I am not willing to assert that's a good thing in a light piston twin).

I guess I am trying to say that the safest way to operate is to follow SOPs.

[oldtimer]

Quick thinking had nothing to do with this incident. It was a quick, knee jerk reaction that could have killed everyone on board. If I were in an executive position with the company, I would have fired the pilot right there on the spot. Forgetting to put the gear down is a big boo boo but one cannot truthfully fire someone for making such a mistake. But to do something stupid stupid stupid like going around with obvious serious and unknown damage to propellers and engines is unquestionable a serious mistake in judgement. I wonder how a "Ho will fly one one engine with a damaged prop on the other side. I know everyone will recite cases of someone going around and living to tell about it but what if a prop tossed a blade or the engine twisted out of the airframe. Will the airplane fly on one engine with a damaged prop on the other side. Will the airplane fly with one damaged prop and the failed engine hanging down by the cables. How long will an engine continue to run when the prop tosses a blade. I know of airplanes that have flown with portions of a blade broken off and I also know of fatalities when too large a piece of the prop broke off. I do not know of anyone who died in a properly executed gear up landing. Just think, everyone is sitting there with the trays in an upright position, seat belts fastened and a controlled descent. All very survivable. Would a damaged prop feather? Will the dynamic counterweights whack the crankcase and break it? How many damaged blades will survive a go-around? Did the engine mounts recieve a nonsurvivable shock? will vibration break the engine mounts? Where are you when you hit the ground? Can Crash, Fire , Rescue find you quickly. Is help close at hand?