Amik Caravan

[A321]

Screen Shot 2019-03-04 at 9.11.39 PM.png (508.02 KiB) Viewed 6359 times

Amik Caravan near Little Grand this afternoon. Details still sketchy but CBC reported 9 including pilot survived the ice landing... (with or without power?)

[BearForceOne]

AFV

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5042709

[C-GGGQ]

Ouch. Looks like my pics of the islander crash up north back in 08. Nose gear dug in on landing and buckled. Glad everyone's ok.

[lownslow]

(with or without power?)

That doesn't look like a propeller blade that was producing power when it stopped, but I'm not the TSB.

[PilotDAR]

It looks to me like the pilot did a good job of getting it on the surface, when the visual cues would have been pretty poor in such an open area with no texture on the unbroken snow - that'd be a glassy water landing. If power off, extra challenging! In the first photo, the prop does look like it might be feathered. I'd say good job of a forced landing, in circumstances probably more difficult than initially apparent.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Oh yes, great job. VFR with little or no visual clues. All the way to a loss of situational awareness, onto a frozen lake. That prop doesn’t look feathered. Another pilot unaware of the one hundred and eighty degree turn.
Cheers
Illya

[Redneck_pilot86]

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

[C.W.E.]

It is interesting that these accidents are fairly common.

[lownslow]

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'

[Illya Kuryakin]

OH, I think that if a Caravan had had an engine failure in Manitoba on a flight planned route, we'd all know about it? There'd have been a MAYDAY call. There'd have been a cadors published. Nobody would be hiding it. They'd be screaming it from the roof tops. Nope. This Caravan pushed VMC, lost visual and ended up lucky to be alive.
There's a lesson here that everybody ignores time and time again. Don't push the weather. TURN AROUND

[Illya Kuryakin]

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'

You've never flown a Caravan, have you.

[The Hammer]

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

Flaps in the caravan are electric. They could have easily been raised afterwards to get them out of the way while unloading etc

[pelmet]

"C-FAFV, a Cessna 208B aircraft operated by Amik Aviation, was conducting a VFR flight from
Winnipeg/St. Andrews (CYAV), MB to Little Grand Rapids (CZGR), MB with 1 pilot and 6
passengers on board. During the final approach for Runway 36 at CZGR, the aircraft collided with
the frozen surface of Family Lake, approximately 0.75 nautical mile south of the threshold of
Runway 36. The pilot and passengers egressed the aircraft, and were transported to the Little
Grand Rapids nursing station for evaluation. The pilot suffered minor injuries. The aircraft
sustained substantial damage."

[C.W.E.]

For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.

[Illya Kuryakin]

"C-FAFV, a Cessna 208B aircraft operated by Amik Aviation, was conducting a VFR flight from
Winnipeg/St. Andrews (CYAV), MB to Little Grand Rapids (CZGR), MB with 1 pilot and 6
passengers on board. During the final approach for Runway 36 at CZGR, the aircraft collided with
the frozen surface of Family Lake, approximately 0.75 nautical mile south of the threshold of
Runway 36. The pilot and passengers egressed the aircraft, and were transported to the Little
Grand Rapids nursing station for evaluation. The pilot suffered minor injuries. The aircraft
sustained substantial damage."

Only way to do this is to lose sight of the runway and continue the descent.
Thanks for that.
They're lucky folks.

[Donald]

For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.

I think you'll find that is apples to oranges.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

I don't know how close to the edge of the lake that van touched down, but it should go farther in the glide with the flaps up. You know, if it was a forced approach and not forced into gentle CFIT by a low ceiling/poor vis/desire to stay 'VFR.'

Sure, flaps should stay up until the desired landing area is attained, but then be lowered to reduce the ground speed as much as possible. *if* this was a forced approach. The only plausible reason I could see for leaving the flaps retracted is if you are covered in ice - which doesn't appear to be the case but it could have melted. Alternatively, maybe the pilot simply forgot the flaps and stalled? The caravan will drop out of the sky around 80 knots, well above the 63 kt stall speed.

Does seem odd to have flaps up for a forced approach.

Flaps in the caravan are electric. They could have easily been raised afterwards to get them out of the way while unloading etc

The flaps are not in the way of anything while unloading, even in the attitude this one is in.

[lownslow]

You've never flown a Caravan, have you.

No Van time here but I stayed at a Holiday Inn, does that count for something? The point is moot now anyways because we know it wasn't a forced approach, but I know flaps generally shorten glide distance and I'm not convinced Cessna could get an exemption on the laws of physics.

[seven-oh-nooo]

No Van time here

The C208 AFM recommends but does not demand the use of full flap on a forced landing. In my mind that makes it pilot's discretion based on circumstances.

[co-joe]

For sure they were more fortunate than that Air Tindi crew a few months ago.

And the Sowind Bandit crew/ pax over 20 years ago at the same airport.

[2112]

AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.

[bobcaygeon]

AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.

There's been more than a couple of aircraft bounce off the ice on Family lake on the approach to 36 in ZGR in the winter.

That prop really doesn't look like it was producing power. Even Pratt's mangle the prop when they hit something abruptly

[Illya Kuryakin]

AFAIK Amik and Sowind share the same management.

Exactly what "management" would that be?
Git 'er done....

[703doge]

VFR into IMC, and subsequently CFIT...

http://www.bst-tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-r ... c0016.html

Bork!

[EPR]

Umm yahh kids...be sure to lower full flap prior to impact...and be ready for the huge change in control forces due to the rapid loss of airspeed when you flare with the full flaps and no thrust!
Practice full flap dead stick landings to an actual landing at your local airstrip!
If you don't understand the importance of this sort of training, then you have no business flying a single engine aircraft with passengers!