French ATC

golden hawk · Post by **golden hawk** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:41 pm

Would be interested in the response to this question.

unregistered · Post by **unregistered** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:37 pm

Absolutely nothing against the French speaking population - just find it takes something away from the situational awareness from time to time.

Yoyoma · Post by **Yoyoma** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:49 pm

I'm bilingual but still realise how hard it is for an english speaking pilot to understand French radio calls, even when not directed at him.

fanspeed · Post by **fanspeed** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:37 pm

If you are ever going to fly in other parts of the world, get used to hearing readio calls in other languages.

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:38 pm

ICAO ISHMAO, right Quebec? I guess the irony here is the location of the ICAO Headquarters!

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:56 pm

Any idea what language is predominant in CDG?

Or EHAM, for two ATC's as starters?

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:12 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Any idea what language is predominant in CDG?

Or EHAM, for two ATC's as starters?

English, with a slur?

flingwing206 · Post by **flingwing206** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:37 pm

no big deal, learn french.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:45 pm

" no big deal, learn french. "

O.K. and how about us poor fools who ferry aircraft all over the world, should we learn every launguage on earth?

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:50 pm

" English, with a slur? "

Yeh, sort of, all Euro Control is in English but trying to decipher some of the airway intersections and then find them on the chart or on the screen is a true challenge with some of the accents.

boby · Post by **boby** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:05 pm

To discontinue french ATC!!!!

Now that's a good joke. And then what would be the next bilingual service to be eliminated?
"We love you Quebec"... right? Well leave us at least the liberty of speaking our own language!

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:33 pm

Back when the Liberals decreed that Canada was a bilingual country, use of the French language in ATC became a foregone conclusion. It had absolutely SFA to do with safety, situational awareness, or anything else. It was purely a political decision. The only way French in ATC will ever be rescended is if two 747's, one loaded with politicians the other with lawyers, collide over downtown Ottawa and it can be proven that language was a factor in the accident. In other words, French is here to stay. Those that don't like that fact must like smacking their heads against a brick wall because it feels good when they stop.

flingwing206 · Post by **flingwing206** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:30 pm

aint talking about the rest of the world

Cargo Pilot · Post by **Cargo Pilot** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:09 pm

Allowing more than one language to be used on frequency is unsafe, plain and simple. This is not Quebec vs the rest of Canada or Frenchman vs Englishman. It's about common sense and safety. I have been inbound to an uncontrolled field in Quebec to hear traffic making calls in French. Even after I made my calls in English, they continued to speak French. I had no idea where they were and what they were doing. Someone please explain to me how this situation can be considered safe. Of course they knew where I was and what I was doing since they must understand English to get a licence. Very frustrating.

English is the universally accepted language in aviation for a reason people.

double-j · Post by **double-j** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:02 pm

Food for thought.

A good buddy of mine was flying into YQB for the first time on the RJ for a Major Regional Airline. He was PF on final for 24?? on a visual approach behind a C-150 on a 3 mile final. Anyway, to make a long story short, they were gaining on the cessna to the point where it looked like it wouldn't work, and he briefed the overshoot. At the same time, the tower spoke some french to the cessna. The Capt of the RJ told him to continue for now, and it was a good thing he did. Because at the same time as my buddy was electing to go around, tower told (in french) the cessna to go around.

IMHO, a classic example of loss of situational awareness.

cheers,

jj

TG · Post by TG » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:17 pm

English is the universally accepted language in aviation for a reason people.

Not so long ago I would have kicked out this kind of quote above with great pleasure.

But, I can't anymore.

I must admit that the ICAO elevated English to the "official language of aviation".
Replacing its earlier recommended-only status on the list of approved languages which included French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic and Chinese. (yes, Arabic)

I believe that by 2008, pilots and air-traffic controllers of the 188 member countries must meet standards that will ensure they are competent in English, in addition to knowing the prescribed air-traffic-control phraseology, although they will still be able to use their native languages for local flight operations.

No worries, you'll be all happy.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:41 pm

I worked ATC overseas, and I can tell you that i've heard over 4 languages on my frequency.

Like many said, i'm for one language, english, to be the standard language. However, in reality, people will shortcut and use their mother language when they can. It happens all over the world.

Canus Chinookus · Post by **Canus Chinookus** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:12 pm

It seems to take 2 to 3 times as many words in french to say the same damn thing in english. Add tying up the frequency with unintelligble chatter(to an anglo) and you have yourself a dangerous situation.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:53 pm

Since we're on the subject, Can you do a Radio Operator's certificate test in French???

So, anyone who gets dinged by NavCan as they love to do, "because they're only following the rules"

When you get your fine, can you(AS THE GUY IN TORONTO DID, the no turning left arrow wasn't picto-grammed in french) say, tough sh8t, I didn't understand what he said, because he was rambling in english?

And btw, I suggest you try that next time you get a fine from one of our lovely tower/fss friends...

and to further piss off our ATC folks, if they don't want to clear you in english to somewhere, just say "ok-eh, cleareh to XXX, merci" and just go.. =)

Why waste time, when you can be the first to depart and first to land... =)

Airtids · Post by **Airtids** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:13 am

Cat Driver wrote:" English, with a slur? "

Yeh, sort of, all Euro Control is in English but trying to decipher some of the airway intersections and then find them on the chart or on the screen is a true challenge with some of the accents.

That's hilarious!! I have the same problem quite often here in Canada whenever I fly somewhere new

. "Say again, center, and maybe spell it phonetically for me? Much obliged".

When I was first starting out, my boss INSISTED we know every number on the approaches to the destinations we were headed to BY MEMORY! Yup, that's right. Headings, altitudes, frequencies, even timings. Kept me alive SPIFR when nothing else could have! Getting lazy as time goes by, and now I actually have to look at the chart.

Zatopec · Post by **Zatopec** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:44 am

[quote="Cargo Pilot"... since they must understand English to get a licence"[/quote]

Wrong. I thought how to fly to people who knew next to nothing in English.

I can't believe we're going at it again on this darn subject!

metal overcast · Post by **metal overcast** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:09 am

Why add any more risk to safety in the sky's?
I have no problem with Quebec at all but every time I venture into the airspace my situational awareness is diminished because I have no clue what is being said to the other planes around me.

Right Seat Captain · Post by **Right Seat Captain** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:28 am

I think all ATC should become French. Why? Just so all of you who think everyone knows english can see exactly why it's bilingual. What would you do if now all of Canada's ATC spoke only French? Guess what, in Quebec, the primary language is French. I'd rather have them flying around knowing what they are saying rather than then A) Flying nordo, or B) Making up words just so they can speak to ATC.

I get the distinct feeling from a lot of these posts that people think in a very small world. Get your heads out of your a**es and realize that not everyone knows English. Go to France, you think everyone speaks in English to ATC? All ATC in Canada speaks English, only some are also bilingual. This meets the ICAO standard.

So you think getting your situational awareness at the expense of someone else's is safe? So great, you understand what ATC is saying to everyone, but now in Quebec you'll have a bunch of people who have no clue what is being said to them or others. I think there's a large majority of pilots flying into Quebec Airports that know french, and can understand the french calls. You'll have far more people getting their sitational awareness if the ATC is bilingual.

boby · Post by **boby** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:57 am

TG wrote:
pilots and air-traffic controllers of the 188 member countries must meet standards that will ensure they are competent in English

Just so you know francophone ATC in Québec ARE bilingual. It is a service they offer to answer back in french to a pilot who communicates in French.
Now for those who fly RJ's for "a Major Regional Airline" and loose all "situational awareness" when challenged with french speaking traffic, I find it remarkably sad. This is a bilingual country, yet, only Québécois and a handfull of Canadians anglophone are actually bilingual!!! How on earth are you supposed to land a job for a company that operates across the provinces without meeting the language requirements of your country?
The whole topic is simply a matter of disrespect towards a Canadian minority. How would French be protected from linguistic assimilation if the Québécois weren't allowed to speak it within their own province??

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:05 am

This subject does nothing except divide Canadian pilots even further than they were before it came up.

Notice how the two sides get more and more agressive as the thread goes on.

It's about time some of you guys grew up and get on with your lives and get your heads out of your asses.

It's a big world out there guys, Quebec and Canada are just a very small segment of the aviation community and God help some of you if you ever get to expand your horizons beyond Canada.

Cat

French ATC

Should French ATC be discontinued?

French ATC