TC monitor ride

odpilot · Post by **odpilot** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:05 pm

I have a chance to do a monitor ride with the local examier and TC inspector should I go? I save the fee for the ride but i still pay for the aircraft.

magellan · Post by **magellan** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:09 pm

I've done a couple of monitor rides and even though I was pretty stressed out about it both rides were uneventful and you barely notice the other guy in the back after the emergencies start coming

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:16 pm

I've done a couple as well. Like magellan said you don't even no theres 2 guys back there. Only one is monitoring you, and the examiner is being monitored by TC.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:25 pm

In that I am effectively no longer " Canadian" as far as aviation goes, what is a monitor ride?

Cat

turbo-prop · Post by **turbo-prop** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:28 pm

When you have a Company check pilot who is doing your ride while TC is in the back monitoring the CCP.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks.

Its getting even more confused that I had realized.

Are these rides manditory?

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:59 pm

Cat Driver wrote:Thanks.

Its getting even more confused that I had realized.

Are these rides manditory?

I can understand your confusion, ..

What is happening is that they are training either a new Industry PE (Pilot Examiner) or new TC Flight Training Inspector (I just went through the process).

What happens is that one of the examiners marks the candidate, and the other observes the conduct of the flight test (to either see how to conduct that kind of flight test, or to evaluate the examiner).

I dare say it is a bit more stressful on the candidate. These tests are always voluntary, and they are set up ahead of time so their are no surprises. The candidate (or their instructor) has the option to "opt out" if they do not feel comfortable. The advantage is that they save the $200.00 flight test fee, although they must still pay the endorsement fee, as applicable.

I hope this helps!

-Guy

PS: The above refers to a Flight Training operation, not part 7 (Commercial Flight operations)... they do things a bit differently.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:21 pm

Thanks for the explination TC Guy, as you are aware I really have no real need to keep up with Canadian way of doing things.

In Europe it is getting so complicated no one knows what in f.ck is required since the EUSA changes have started to get chruned out and in the process churned up.

From my own standpoint I now get to do the recurrent profficiency rides on the CAA examiners...and I am truly blessed because they are really good people to work with....the funny thing is no one seems to wonder why I don't have to take one. I guess they use common sense and just figure that if the guy I was checking is happy then all is well with the little world we fly in.

You coming out to YCD so I can get you started on building your own flying machine?

Cat

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:45 pm

., as an ACP (Approved Check Pilot) or CCP (Company Check Pilot) a TC inspector, usually our POI, has to monitor me doing a checkride on a company pilot to either do an initial PPC and IFT or a recurrent PPC/IFT at least once a year on one of the types I am endorsed on. I would imagine the FTO'shave something similar. In our case, I take the candidate off to one side and explain that TC is not there to monitor your performance, but mine. That usually puts them at ease. After the first one, most guys shrug it off as just another checkride. If you read the latest CBAAC, you will see that TC are getting out of the business of performing checkrides for commercial air cariers. Every one is going to CCP's. And it is going to cost more. $200 will get you a TC checkride if you bring the airplane to TC or pay expenses to have them go to the sim but I would charge at least double that if I freelanced. I would not park my ass in someone elses airplane for less than $400.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:53 pm

" I would not park my ass in someone elses airplane for less than $400.
_________________ "

That sounds about right, you only fly about one hour or so, so you have to make it worth while.

I charge 250.00 Euro per hour for dual training on the Cat, it is not to bad because I fly more than one hour per trip usually so I can make a decent days pay some days.

Cat

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:21 am

Cat Driver wrote: You coming out to YCD so I can get you started on building your own flying machine?

Cat

Well, the next time I am out that way, I will shut down and see what I can see.

Where is your hanger?

-Guy

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:29 am

oldtimer wrote:$200 will get you a TC checkride if you bring the airplane to TC or pay expenses to have them go to the sim but I would charge at least double that if I freelanced. I would not park my ass in someone elses airplane for less than $400.

Interesting...

I wonder how long it will be until people are longing for the "good old days" when TC did the rides for only $200?

People still look at me strangely when I tell them the written exams "back in the day" were free, and the flight test only cost $5 (+ the endorsement fee of $10). As a Flight Instructor, even I could afford that.

I can say that TC is getting out of the testing business. When SMS finally takes hold, monitoring is all we will do. I probably picked a bad time to join up if I want to fly... but we will see.

-Guy

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:58 am

I wouldn't touch it with a stick. Here's why. Your check pilot will be "under the gun" so to speak, to bring everything you do wrong to the TC guy's attention. You could very easily make a mistake, that, with just the CP on board would be overlooked...or at least mentioned.....but with TC on board, that mistake may well magnified....give some thought!

magellan · Post by **magellan** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:14 am

Both of my monitor rides were with the CCP and and TC fellow and it was fine. Any minor blunders were debriefed but the rides were no different then the rides I did with TC inspectors. If you arent comfortable having the ride done with another person in the back then dont do it I guess, but it really isnt a big deal. That being said both of the inspectors that monitored my rides were nice guys and I have heard there are one or two fellows out there that can be pretty harsh.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:15 am

TC Guy:

You asked.

" Where is your hanger? "

Do you know where Vital Aviation has their office?

Cat

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:21 am

I have done a monitored ride. I remember it being almost twice as long as most. Remember that if you are renting for 300 an hour you might not save money. Other than that, the only extra stress is what you put on yourself.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:23 am

Magellan wrote :

"I have heard there are one or two fellows out there that can be pretty harsh."

And we have one out here in the Pacific Region that is a arrogant bully not to mention a complete as.hole to boot. ( PM me and I will gladly give his name out. )

So why would anyone " volunteer " to risk loosing your ability to earn a living?

Cat

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:29 am

Bingo

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:37 am

Mornin Doc:

What in f.ck has aviation come to? Pilots not only offering to risk their lives for peanuts but pilots idiots enough to submit to volunteer to go through a farcial pantomine with TC to demonstrate they are competent and safe....then rush out and fly in crap wearher for peanuts...

and then volunteer to risk some TC as.hole like the one I am refeering to taking your right to work away from you.

I get so totally discouraged at how stupid the industry is getting I don't even look up anymore when an airplane flys over...it's to depressing.

But at least you have it figured out Doc..

Cat

TC Guy · Post by **TC Guy** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:35 am

Cat:

I am sure I can find Vital Aviation... or find someone that can tell me if it isn't immediately evident.

I must be a real glutten for punishment, but I can't let this one go either...

just another pilot wrote:I have done a monitored ride. I remember it being almost twice as long as most. Remember that if you are renting for 300 an hour you might not save money. Other than that, the only extra stress is what you put on yourself.

I am sorry that was your experience. The only issue is that without people willing to take that "chance" to do the monitored ride will mean that the whole industry will grind to a halt. We need Check Pilots/Pilot Examiners. We have to be able to train them. This is how it happens.

I have personally allowed (minimum) 4-5 monitored flight tests on myself, and have allowed more than double that on my students. On the whole, it has been a positive experience.

Cat Driver wrote:So why would anyone " volunteer " to risk loosing your ability to earn a living?

I have, and will again, I am sure.

Every flight test you do is a bit of a gamble.

I am not going to say that their are not bad examiners out there. I am not going to say that poor situations have not happened. Nothing is perfect.

If you don't feel comfortable, you have the choice NOT to do it (at least in flight training, for some 70X companies, your milage may vary).

-Guy

odpilot · Post by **odpilot** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:43 am

Thanks for the info i have been told by an old examiner that monitor rides are used to train examiners and the failure rate is about 80%

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:39 pm

TCGUY. It was long, but I never stated it was bad. Also, I did not pay for the aircraft, my company did. I knew going in, that I would be put through the ringer (multiple emergencies and failures).

mattas350 · Post by **mattas350** » Fri May 26, 2006 5:19 pm

Used the search and found this, I'm doing a monitored ride with TC on the 8th of June, PPL/Fixed wing, in Pacific Region, any suggestions or tips to give before I do the ride?

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Fri May 26, 2006 9:14 pm

Good Grief! Its amazing how a thread can get hijacked so quickly.

odpilot, I have done two monitored rides - with reluctance, but the $200 savings won in the end. Both went fine and without incident. I think in most cases, the TC inspector will give you a bit of slack for nervousness under the extra pressure - at least if they're human.

mattas350, the main piece of advice is to relax! The rest of the advice in no particular order is as follows:

Take your time and force yourself to do everything s-l-o-w-l-y and methodically. Prepare yourself well and rest the night before - don't cram or you will get yourself in a tizzy because you will find all sorts of stuff you couldn't remember and you'll figure you don't know anything.

Use the approved checklists for everything and do each item s-l-o-w-l-y and carefully.

For emergency items, remember above all to CONTROL the airplane, do the memory items smoothly but slowly, then finish it off by pulling out the checklist and double-checking you did everything (if you forget something they can't nail you if you catch it with a checklist). Don't rush through your emergency drills as though lives will be lost if you can't perform faster than a machine gun. Even if they tell you the engine just fell right off the airplane and you're plummeting to your death, just take your time and do the job well. You can get faster later.

Do clearing turns before ANY flight maneuver, and ask the examiner(s) to help you look for traffic.

In the ground brief, take your time and consider each question carefully before answering it. LISTEN to the question and THINK before you speak! Don't be a star - if you act like a know it all, many examiners will put you through the ringer until they find something you don't know. It may sound silly, but it really helps if you appear thoughtful before answering - like you really have to reach down into the depths of your brain to dig out the answer.

If you don't know the answer - LOOK IT UP! When they ask you for things like symbols on a map, and you just can't remember - don't guess! Be honest and tell them you can't remember that one but show them you know where to get the information by looking it up in the legend. Whether its private, commercial, IFR, ATP (not in Canada) or whatever, if you don't know, look in the appropriate manual, document, AIM, regulation or whatever. Of course you can't look everything up, but they can't fail you for not having a photographic memory if you know where to find the information (of course this requires you know where to find the information).

Do a walkaround (or floataround, if its on floats) on the airplane, using the flight manual and locate everything, particularly things like stall switches, fuel drains, vents, antennaes, safety switches (like squat switches on landing gear or door circuit switches for flaps). READ THE MANUAL! Know what kind of engine is in your plane, power settings, horsepower etc. Know all the stuff that can kill you - stall speeds/configurations, safety speeds, operating limitations. Do some sample weight and balances and learn to use the appropriate charts and graphs. Learn how to use the take-off, climb and landing charts.

Do everything you possibly can the night before, or well before the ride - things like flight planning, weather, weight and balance and even the walkaround can often be done in advance. For flight planning, get what you can done, then top it up with current wx a couple of hours before the flight. Visit FSS in person if you can, tell them you are going on a flight test and get them to give you the most thorough briefing possible, including explaining how to read the weather - text, charts and symbols - even if its just to refresh your memory (particularly if you are doing an IFR ride).

When you call for clearances (if IFR, or any VFR flight near a control zone), mention you are on a flight test wherever possible. It is amazing how much leeway ATC can and usually will give you.

If you need more time to think about or perform a task or maneuver, ASK for it! If somebody gives you a clearance or instruction and you can't remember what they said or don't understand it - be pro-active and ASK for them to repeat it (or "say again").

No matter what, if you think you blew something - an altitude, a procedure, heading or whatever - CORRECT IMMEDIATELY and be agressive. In otherwords don't worry if they puke! If you have to perform a maneuver within defined limits and you catch yourself outside, you can often save yourself by taking immediate corrective action. This at least shows you are scanning properly and have good situational awareness.

Finally, download the flight test standard for whatever type of ride you are doing and give it a good read through. This document contains all the parameters, limitations and procedures involved in any kind of check rides and the examiner is not allowed to deviate from the standard. Therefore, it will give you a pretty clear idea of what to expect on the ride, including what they expect out of you. (note, don't expect these standards to apply to company check-rides. On company check rides, learn to expect everything, especially the unexpected).

Hope at least some of this helps and I didn't bore you to death.

Cheers,
Snoopy

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat May 27, 2006 5:44 am

Doc wrote:I wouldn't touch it with a stick. Here's why. Your check pilot will be "under the gun" so to speak, to bring everything you do wrong to the TC guy's attention. You could very easily make a mistake, that, with just the CP on board would be overlooked...or at least mentioned.....but with TC on board, that mistake may well magnified....give some thought!

This is the best advice I have seen on the thread. You are absolutely right on this one Doc. An individual will always receive a tougher oral exam and will be examined more closely in the sim/airlpane with a tougher debrief. There is nothing positive for the candidate in a monitored ride. (and I spent a number of years as a CCP/ ACP)