First, some quick stats and an informal survey
Quarterly T.C. stats show 19353 CPL/ATPL in force. 5.02% female.
Yet when we do a quick survey of new hires over the last year, the hiring stats show 10-25% of new hires are females.
Are they really better pilots, or what is going on?
Why are female pilots better?
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sky's the limit
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Out of Control
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Highflyinpilot
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slowstream
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Kurwa wrote:
At AC for example, females are only around 3% or less...lower than the national average...where are these companies!?! I like flying with chicks
I think an ATPL is required for A.C., Wesjet etc. Would have to look at the stats again for just ATPLs, as the CPL's ratios would be discounted
It is not that figures lie, but liers figure.....I think abe lincoln or Kermit the frog said that.
At AC for example, females are only around 3% or less...lower than the national average...where are these companies!?! I like flying with chicks
I think an ATPL is required for A.C., Wesjet etc. Would have to look at the stats again for just ATPLs, as the CPL's ratios would be discounted
It is not that figures lie, but liers figure.....I think abe lincoln or Kermit the frog said that.
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bizjet_mania
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Correct, in most cases its not about them being the best, they have to hire a certain percentage of visible minorities. Thats why there are females at AC with far less time then males, because there are fewer companies out there willing to hire females and they have to give everyone an equal shot.slowstream wrote:Not about to debate this but the likely best answer is "visable minority"
Took the words right outta my mouth.Flymez wrote:come on guy's we all know how hot it is to see a girl fly a plane.
Much respect for the female aviator...Aviatrix
"FLY THE AIRPLANE"!
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http://www.youtube.com/hazatude
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bizjet_mania
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Re: Why are female pilots better?
Simple - they usually don't let their egos get in the way like men do!trey kule wrote: Are they really better pilots, or what is going on?
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bizjet_mania
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With a little bit of understanding of basic stats, you can make surveys and figures and studies dance a fine jig. To get the real picture, you need to take a good hard look.
What would the same survey/study say if you looked at the relative total time of the pilots being hired? You'd see that many of the the folks being hired had less total time than the national average. Does this mean that low timers are better pilots or are being hired over those with more time? Obviously not. What it means is that someone who's newer to the industry is more likely to be looking for a job, and thus more likely to be in the "hired" column.
If you want an accurate representation of what's happening, look at the new hires in relation to the CPL's issued in the last few years.
What does this all mean? It means that there are more women moving into the industry. It doesn't mean that they're getting preferential treatment, it means that women are beginning to make up a greater part of the pool of pilots, and especially a greater part of the pool of hungry young low-timers. It's simple logic that if the pool of job hunters has a greater percentage of women in it than the total pool of licensed pilots, the new hires will have a greater percentage of women.
While there are probably a few places where women may be hired for a gender-related reason, I'd also wage that there are places where they are NOT hired for gender-related reasons. I can think of a couple of companies outside of aviation that still discriminate against women for certain positions - and one that will not hire a woman for a field position under ANY circumstances.
This isn't a gender equality issue, it's a math issue. Take a cold, balanced, look at the facts. Then learn to accept the fact that the person sitting in the right(or left) seat next to you might just be equipped with different plumbing. That doesn't necessarily reflect on their piloting skills. They may be better than you, or they might not be as good. If you're a professional, you'll find a way to benefit from their different perspective as opposed to whining about flying no longer being a "boy's club".
Being a guy, I don't know what a woman has to put up with in the process of getting into the industry, but given the number of smart-@ss comments that folks have made here (even though I'm sure that some are tongue in cheek), I'd imagine that they still have to deal with some resistance and some knuckle-dragging attitudes. Odds are that if they've made it through all of that, they've learned a few things along the way. Maybe we as guys can benefit from what they've learned.
What would the same survey/study say if you looked at the relative total time of the pilots being hired? You'd see that many of the the folks being hired had less total time than the national average. Does this mean that low timers are better pilots or are being hired over those with more time? Obviously not. What it means is that someone who's newer to the industry is more likely to be looking for a job, and thus more likely to be in the "hired" column.
If you want an accurate representation of what's happening, look at the new hires in relation to the CPL's issued in the last few years.
What does this all mean? It means that there are more women moving into the industry. It doesn't mean that they're getting preferential treatment, it means that women are beginning to make up a greater part of the pool of pilots, and especially a greater part of the pool of hungry young low-timers. It's simple logic that if the pool of job hunters has a greater percentage of women in it than the total pool of licensed pilots, the new hires will have a greater percentage of women.
While there are probably a few places where women may be hired for a gender-related reason, I'd also wage that there are places where they are NOT hired for gender-related reasons. I can think of a couple of companies outside of aviation that still discriminate against women for certain positions - and one that will not hire a woman for a field position under ANY circumstances.
This isn't a gender equality issue, it's a math issue. Take a cold, balanced, look at the facts. Then learn to accept the fact that the person sitting in the right(or left) seat next to you might just be equipped with different plumbing. That doesn't necessarily reflect on their piloting skills. They may be better than you, or they might not be as good. If you're a professional, you'll find a way to benefit from their different perspective as opposed to whining about flying no longer being a "boy's club".
Being a guy, I don't know what a woman has to put up with in the process of getting into the industry, but given the number of smart-@ss comments that folks have made here (even though I'm sure that some are tongue in cheek), I'd imagine that they still have to deal with some resistance and some knuckle-dragging attitudes. Odds are that if they've made it through all of that, they've learned a few things along the way. Maybe we as guys can benefit from what they've learned.
Please don't tell my mother that I work in the Oilpatch...she still thinks that I'm the piano player at a whorehouse.
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sky's the limit
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water wings
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waw... here i was expecting this thread to go completely down hill in a messy rant of ovary bashing...but to my surprise boys (and girls) it was kept quite civil.
kind pissed, because i had a whole rant at the ready and now i fell like i got jipped. Oh well.
thank you all for realizing that flying is not rocket science, and thank you boys for thinking we look lovely in the aircraft...
i know that "balancing out the hiring pool" is frustrating and i am not saying it should be done. I still believe people should be hired for skill and experience, but you and i both know that is was not always so - on both sides of the equation...( i have a few companies in mind that will NOT hire chickies)
I am glad that my Mother, way back in the 60s and 50s aviation world helped make it doeable for me and other flying chicks, FAs, ATC, and AMEs. It was in no way easy for her, but she loved flying and kept at it, even fooling people into hiring her by not putting her full name on her CV (of course when she showed up for training, they either told her the class was full or paid her 1/2 what the guys were making)
I still say the thing i wish on my worst enemy in aviation is to make him female; and if that enemy is already female, make her attractive. See how much she has to prove herself now.
thanks boys, for giving us the vote and sometimes even listening...
kind pissed, because i had a whole rant at the ready and now i fell like i got jipped. Oh well.
thank you all for realizing that flying is not rocket science, and thank you boys for thinking we look lovely in the aircraft...
i know that "balancing out the hiring pool" is frustrating and i am not saying it should be done. I still believe people should be hired for skill and experience, but you and i both know that is was not always so - on both sides of the equation...( i have a few companies in mind that will NOT hire chickies)
I am glad that my Mother, way back in the 60s and 50s aviation world helped make it doeable for me and other flying chicks, FAs, ATC, and AMEs. It was in no way easy for her, but she loved flying and kept at it, even fooling people into hiring her by not putting her full name on her CV (of course when she showed up for training, they either told her the class was full or paid her 1/2 what the guys were making)
I still say the thing i wish on my worst enemy in aviation is to make him female; and if that enemy is already female, make her attractive. See how much she has to prove herself now.
thanks boys, for giving us the vote and sometimes even listening...
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