Blue Water Aviation plane down North of Winnipeg

[FlyGy]

Plane clipped a tree with 3 on board then sank in the water.

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/mobile/plan ... -1.4657007

[digits_]

Underwater recovery team. That does not sound good

[fish4life]

I hope everyone is alright, the water is down into the high 40’s low 50’s this time of year and it won’t take much for hypothermia to be an issue.

[cncpc]

CBC reports a witness saw a wing "...come off".

[J31]

I hope everyone is alright, the water is down into the high 40’s low 50’s this time of year and it won’t take much for hypothermia to be an issue.

Not that warm. Lake temps are about 6 degrees celsius (43 fahrenheit) and those small lakes are cooling off fast with daily air temperatures around 0 celsius.

You are right that hypothermia will set in fast.

[peterdillon]

Was up there Friday and the small shallow lakes had ice on them.

[fish4life]

Any word on if it was a rescue or recovery?

[CLguy]

Unfortunately it’s a recovery

[fish4life]

That’s sad to hear

[MudFarmer]

Contrary to the news article no trees were hit on approach. It was a inflight breakup.

[Mick G]

Contrary to the news article no trees were hit on approach. It was a inflight breakup.

The Otter has had issues in the past with wing separation and fatigue on structural areas. I'm sure the maintenance and inspection records will be the first area to look into.

[Maynard]

This is (unofficially) the 5th (on record)
2 in 1956. First suspected wake turbulence, the other inadvertent rapid full flap retraction
1 in the 70's, unknown cause
1 in 2013, black sheep, determined excessive over speed on high percentage of flights

While the tail has had its issues, it doesn't seem like in flight break ups are a known issue or weak spot with the Otter

[C-GGGQ]

One recovered. Divers still looking for two. Confirmed by those on scene in flight breakup

[iflyforpie]

Turbine Otters cruise at Vne. Can’t exactly be healthy for the airframe.

[Schooner69A]

"...cruise at Vne…"

We had a company Twotter years ago; I seem to remember we lumbered along about 140-150 knots.

[ragbagflyer]

Turbine Otters cruise at Vne. Can’t exactly be healthy for the airframe.

The current Vne's are the former top of the green arc. Vne used to be 192 on wheels, 183 on floats.

You could also correctly say they cruise just a few mph above Va.

[Antique Pilot]

According to the CCAR they have 3 turbine and 2 piston Otters.

AP

[Maynard]

Turbine Otters cruise at Vne. Can’t exactly be healthy for the airframe.

Not sure how many operators do that knowing it’s weaknesses. We run at 144/134mph for wheels and floats.

[Mick G]

This is (unofficially) the 5th (on record)
2 in 1956. First suspected wake turbulence, the other inadvertent rapid full flap retraction
1 in the 70's, unknown cause
1 in 2013, black sheep, determined excessive over speed on high percentage of flights

While the tail has had its issues, it doesn't seem like in flight break ups are a known issue or weak spot with the Otter

I beg to differ. With presumably 2 in a period of less than 10 years, it would be appear to be a cause for concern, especially considering the air-frames are continuing to age. I'd bet Viking is sweating blood at the moment.

[goingnowherefast]

IIRC, the Garrett engine conversion doesn't move the airspeed redline in the same manner as the PT-6 conversions. It leads to some operators cruising around all day every day at 160mph, well into the yellow airspeed range.

The accountant is quite happy all summer long with getting extra trips done. The sheet metal guys are also quite happy when they take that extra profit repairing cracks and fatigue damage in the tail during the off-season.

Just because the tail hasn't fallen off, doesn't mean it's not a problem. There's a lot of structural work being done to some aircraft in the off-season, especially the ones with the bigger up-gross kits.

I'd also agree that 5 structural failures in a production run of less than 500 aircraft isn't a good sign. Look at it this way, more than 1% of the aircraft produced have fallen apart in flight. If it were the 172, we'd have 440 airplanes. If it were the 737, we'd have 106 airplanes.

I'd say it's time to get some serious attention on this. Either it's being operated incorrectly, there's a design weakness, or the airframe isn't ageing well with now 50-60 year old airplanes.

[Maynard]

This is (unofficially) the 5th (on record)
2 in 1956. First suspected wake turbulence, the other inadvertent rapid full flap retraction
1 in the 70's, unknown cause
1 in 2013, black sheep, determined excessive over speed on high percentage of flights

While the tail has had its issues, it doesn't seem like in flight break ups are a known issue or weak spot with the Otter

I beg to differ. With presumably 2 in a period of less than 10 years, it would be appear to be a cause for concern, especially considering the air-frames are continuing to age. I'd bet Viking is sweating blood at the moment.

If you drove a Tesla at 150 mph in the snow and hit a pole, should you be concerned about the safety of the car?? Black sheep didn't operate the otter properly. That same plane also hit a snow bank with the back end just prior to the accident flight. It wasn't just a "plane fell apart for no reason" crash....If it turns out that there were no contributing factors and the latest one just fell apart, then I would be concerned.

[FishermanIvan]

BWA has Walter/GE engines on their Otters and they’re not operating with that 9000 pound upgross or whatever it is.

I worked there for two summers. Very sad to hear this and my heart goes out to everyone involved.

[C-FDPB]

I fly both the PT6 and Garrett conversions. They are very similar in limitation. PT6 is max 134mph on floats and 144mph wheels, Garrett if I recall is limited at 136mph floats 146mph wheels. Regardless it's very tragic and hits home.

[anofly]

There is enough to go wrong in aviation , without having to worry about airframe failure.... this needs attention.

[phillyfan]

There but for the grace of God, go I.