Pro IFR or Perimeter

shamrock104 · Post by **shamrock104** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:23 pm

At this time of year taking the weather into consideration would it be more time efficient training for the Multi IFR at Perimeter or Pro?

WhatThe? · Post by **WhatThe?** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:46 pm

why only those two?

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:06 pm

Just going off the weather, I suspect Perimeter would be the better choice.

I can also say though that Pro is a top-notch facility run by a top-notch guy.

Why only the two?

shamrock104 · Post by **shamrock104** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:23 pm

Both offer structured training in a timely manner and both are well respected.

Mornazinomoretuzzi · Post by **Mornazinomoretuzzi** » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:25 am

Simple, PRO IFR. Most forums on here will back this up. Good equipment, great instruction and a beautiful city. Have fun.

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:07 pm

Both are realy good...but I think I would suggest Perimeter over Pro...they tend to hire their students (if you impress them)....& last I check'd PRO doesn't have any ugly Metros for you to get on...

AZN 027 · Post by **AZN 027** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:45 am

both great schools. But Perimeter wins in the end with the oppurtunity for employment on the ramp. Also there is also a chance to ride shotgun in the Baron when they do their daily bagrun to Thunder Bay from Winnipeg. You get to see how the real world works and how dope single pilot IFR is.

Where'd who go? · Post by **Where'd who go?** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:55 pm

Perimeter.

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:39 am

I give my vote for Perimeter. Who cares if the weather is bad in the peg, their planes are deived equiped and you will get to see some actual. And the equipment is top notch.

Cheers.

stuckmike · Post by **stuckmike** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:27 am

Did my multi/ifr at pro a while ago, drank a few pints in the 'peg since then. Two great cities, cost of living Manitoba would be significantly cheaper I think. If you want to fly for a living, better start pinching pennies now..

Cheers

goldeneagle · Post by **goldeneagle** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:13 am

shamrock104 wrote:At this time of year taking the weather into consideration would it be more time efficient training for the Multi IFR at Perimeter or Pro?

Define time efficient. If you mean 'can grind a candidate thru the course in the shortest amount of calender time', they both get high marks. If you mean 'spend the greatest amount of the training experience actually boring holes inside clouds', the folks on the west coast probably have an advantage, they tend to get considerably more weather to work with on average. You can view this as a good thing, or a bad thing. Taking a peek at the navcan website right now

SPECI CYVR 071620Z 09005KT 1 1/2SM BR SCT003 SCT008 BKN020 OVC033 08/
RMK SF3SC1SC2SC2=
METAR CYXX 071600Z 00000KT 2SM -SHRA BR FEW006 OVC025 07/06 A2968 RMK
SF1SC7 SLP052=

METAR CYWG 071600Z 09002KT 15SM OVC013 M04/M07 A2977 RMK SC8 SLP093=

If you blast off right now, from both schools, the probability of missing an approach into winterpeg for real, due to ceiling/vis, is virtually non existant, you will see the inside of the clouds, to break out under it with visibility into next week. The probability of missing at abbotsford, very low, but if you botch the approach, you will never see the runway. The probability of missing at Boundary Bay, is actually pretty good. Wether you miss or not, the return to ZBB is going to let you see 'picking thru the low crap to find a runway' first hand, pilots eye view of doing a non precision approach into the low crap. I've never been to or talked to the folks at perimeter, but I'm assuming they do train in cloud, so, the ovc013 is not a show stopper for them. I know the planes at pro will be out punching holes in the clouds on a day like today, they are just up the street from me, and I see them doing it all the time.

The freezing level in winterpeg is sub surface, it'll be minus 8 by the time you get up to the cloud base. GFA shows no significant ice forecast in those clouds, but there is a chance of light rime in cloud. Blasting off in the lower mainland, you'll be playing with freezing levels in the 4 thousand foot range. On the miss out of abbotsford, you _may_ get a chance to see some rime at/above the freezing level, but it'll be comfortable with the knowledge that freezing level is 500 feet below, and you are flying in an area where vectors can get you down well below the freezing level pretty much on demand.

If you are doing an initial multi-ifr, you should not be worried about 'time efficient', you should be worried about 'time quality'. Most modern production line style schools have a very rigid curriculum, and can process a candidate thru 'the system' efficiently in terms of calendar time. You are looking at a MAJOR financial commitment, and bang for the buck is the important detail. The choice between winterpeg and lower mainland BC is 'quality of life' driven by some folks, but for this endeavor, the bottom line is, you dont care, let 'quality of flying' drive the decision. In that respect, I'm a little biased, I think the west coast weather will likely make the course a little harder, and you a little smarter because of it. At this time of year, you can pretty much count on having to make the miss/land decision based on what you see out the window at least once thru the course.

Just my thoughts, worth exactly what you paid for them.

FlyYukon · Post by **FlyYukon** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:29 pm

This topicc has helped my decision as well. I was leaning towards Pro-IFR, but now I think thats where I'll go to. Hope my boss gives me loads of time off!

Cheers

2R · Post by 2R » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:39 pm

I can only say good things about PRO-IFR and John's system.
When in doubt ask the former customers,and you will get an idea as to what suits you .
If money is no object go to both and compare and let us know what you think .
Pro is an efficient way of getting it done and a great system for single pilot stuff .Perimeter may be able to prepare you for the two crew enviroment as they are an airline as well.

KenoraPilot · Post by **KenoraPilot** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:45 pm

I did my traininig at Permieter and it was awsome, great people, great facilites and very good instructing! The weather is also very good during the winter for alot of IMC conditions. I would vote for Permieter!

klintph · Post by **klintph** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:09 am

how about harvs air? what can you say about it? how does it compare to perimeter?

medicineman · Post by **medicineman** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:35 pm

I completed my initial IFR at Harv's two years ago. The instructing and service was excellent. They were flexible with my bookings as I was working full time. Also, you will save $$$. Taxi time is limited in Steinbach .2 or .3 (Harvs owns the airport) whereas at P, you will be charged a min of .5 taxi time for each flight. Go with Harv's.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:37 pm

Mr.Navajo wrote: Taxi time is limited in Steinbach .2 or .3 (Harvs owns the airport) whereas at P, you will be charged a min of .5 taxi time for each flight. Go with Harv's.

30 minutes to taxi?

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:40 pm

I trained at Pro. My first flight was IMC except for the first and last 400' There were a few days clear above and approaching into fog at mins and looking for the field. Vancouver and Abbotsford are close for alternates.

When I was there there were billing air time plus .4 even if you took off in .2 The school said it was an average as some people took longer to run the checks. ATC delays were not a factor

.4 is BS dont pay it !!! air time plus .2 maybe or just pay what it actually takes.

Snowgoose · Post by **Snowgoose** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:38 pm

If you do the Perimeter check list from the beginning you will have been charged .6 before you taxi on the runway. If you do the abridged version expect .4. Longest checklist I've ever seen. I'm sure a B-29's checklist takes less time.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:32 pm

When I was there there were billing air time plus .4 even if you took off in .2 The school said it was an average as some people took longer to run the checks.

Perimeter check list from the beginning you will have been charged .6 before you taxi on the runway. If you do the abridged version expect .4. Longest checklist I've ever seen.

So Pro, charges bonus 0.4 regardless, and Perimeter charges start to finish but expect 0.4 on the checklist anyways... LoL..

Edo What if you sat on the ground for 1.0 would they only charge you the 0.4 or would they make an exception and charge you Air + 1.0?? Honestly Curious.

Thanks

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:31 am

I was last there in 2002 but doubt things have changeed much. Most students are doing the IFR right after the commercail and dont know the difference. I traind at Boundry Bay

I dont know what the vfr machines bill maybe the same.

Before Pro moved from YVR to boundry bay there were huge delays due to traffic. They moved to boundy bay. When I was there BB had no more delays than and small ariport you may wait for 2 a/c to land but that was about it.

The broched stated they dont bill flight time so you dont pay for ATC delays. I expected to pay air time and thought "wow great"

So if you sat for 1.0 due to traffic you pay the .4 but thats not likely to happen and even if it did, the .4 that everyone pays more than makes up for it.

The other hobbes time grab was waiting until the oil temp was middle of the green. In the winter in Vancouver it would happen, but if you took the a/c to somewhere colder how long do you think it would take? Even the instructors were stumped when I asked them how long this would take at -30.

Usually after runup and taxi they were close but a couple of times on the first fight of the day we waited and extra few minutes. Whats wrong with 200-300 CHT and Oil temp off the peg?

Hedley · Post by **Hedley** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:13 am

With a multi-viscosity oil, a cool oil temp on takeoff is not as important as with a straight-grade oil.

As long as the oil pressure is ok - which it will be, with a multi-viscosity oil, because it's much thinner at cool temps - the engine doesn't really care if the oil is 80F or 100F.

What is important about oil temperature, is not allowing it to get below the pour point in the oil cooler, and plugging it up.

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