Landing fee at CYOS

[photofly]

https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/loc ... l-airport/

My first thoughts are:


1.The town council wants to close the airport (well, that's not news, everyone's known that for ever) and this is how they plan to do it.

2. $35 would make it probably the fourth most expensive airport in the country for a piston single, for a dumpy little airport with an ugly terminal building in the middle of nowhere. Why bother?

[rookiepilot]

https://www.thesudburystar.com/news/loc ... l-airport/

My first thoughts are:


1.The town council wants to close the airport (well, that's not news, everyone's known that for ever) and this is how they plan to do it.

2. $35 would make it probably the fourth most expensive airport in the country for a piston single, for a dumpy little airport with an ugly terminal building in the middle of nowhere. Why bother?

Never landed there. No need.

I'm curious how other pilots think municipal airports, especially in the middle of nowhere, should be funded, though, as landing fees are very unpopular. Not everyone buys gas, either.

Things do cost money to operate.

[photofly]

Wait until the Mayor's daughter needs an emergency medevac from the airport, where Ornge frequently land, then ask *him* how he thinks the airport should be funded.

[JasonE]

At $35 say goodbye to another airport.

[Inverted2]

Could just land at Wiarton or Collingwood instead if you’re not too picky on location. $35 is a little steep unless you get a CATSA massage thrown in and you can get a Tim Horton’s inside the terminal.

[piperdriver]

Could just land at Wiarton or Collingwood instead if you’re not too picky on location. $35 is a little steep unless you get a CATSA massage thrown in and you can get a Tim Horton’s inside the terminal.

For $35 that CATSA massage hopefully has a happy ending.

[photofly]

I'm curious how other pilots think municipal airports, especially in the middle of nowhere, should be funded, though, as landing fees are very unpopular. Not everyone buys gas, either.

Things do cost money to operate.

I pay for libraries, even though I don't borrow library books. I pay for parks, even though I don't visit them, or swing on the swings. I don't use community centres or public beaches; I don't visit municipal Christmas light displays, nor New Year's Eve celebrations. I don't skate on municipal rinks, nor play baseball on municipal diamonds. Yet I pay for all these things. Why is it the one municipal facility I do use, is the one that has to be self-funding?

[AirFrame]

I'm curious how other pilots think municipal airports, especially in the middle of nowhere, should be funded, though, as landing fees are very unpopular. Not everyone buys gas, either.

The same way other municipal infrastructure is funded. Tax dollars. As photofly pointed out. I don't use any of those facilities either.

Other ways: Build hangars and lease them, or lease the land and let others build. Or attract aviation-related businesses and lease them land to build on.

[photofly]

Other ways: Build hangars and lease them, or lease the land and let others build. Or attract aviation-related businesses and lease them land to build on.

Ha ha. They did those things; all the hangars are leased already. So they took the money, and now they're going to bill all the hangar owners on top for their landings.

[rookiepilot]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

[photofly]

There are a bunch near you: Greenbank is a private airfield, so is Burlington, Brampton is a not-for-profit run by pilots, Buttonville is privately owned, also run by a flying family. Edenvale is private, Collingwood was sold into private ownership last year... should I go on?

[digits_]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

Would you run a library in a small town with your own money? Or a fire hall?

[NotDirty!]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

Crickets, and most other invertebrates (other than perhaps ACPA leadership) lack the cash flow, ambition, organization, and leadership to operate an airport.

Although your post does raise the interesting philosophical question as to whether one is still considered a pilot if their own body has the ability to fly... I think most people, generally, would not consider crickets to be pilots.

Therefore, I believe your prediction is wrong. I am willing to bet a beer on that (or 90% of a beer, if it is cargo aircraft only).

[rookiepilot]

There are a bunch near you: Greenbank is a private airfield, so is Burlington, Brampton is a not-for-profit run by pilots, Buttonville is privately owned, also run by a flying family. Edenvale is private, Collingwood was sold into private ownership last year... should I go on?

LOL.

Owen sound is exactly like those.

[rookiepilot]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

Would you run a library in a small town with your own money? Or a fire hall?

Why don't you answer the question Digits?

Tell us how you'd turn CYOS around to at least! cut their losses. I'm interested.

[digits_]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

Would you run a library in a small town with your own money? Or a fire hall?

Why don't you answer the question Digits?

Tell us how you'd turn CYOS around to at least! cut their losses. I'm interested.

Because I don't agree with your assumption. You are assuming that an airport needs to make money. I don't think it needs to. A public library doesn't need to make money either.

So no, I wouldn't invest my personal money in a public airport, just like I wouldn't invest it in a public library. As a town council member I would accept that a community airport might operate with a loss, because it provides access to my community, which will increase economic activity.
It can also be used by emergency services. My fire department wouldn't make a profit either.

Why don't you answer my question rookiepilot? Would you run a library in a small town with your own money?

[rookiepilot]

So YYZ shouldn't have landing fees? It's a community airport. Downtown Toronto parking should be free? No property taxes?

Because, you know, we have to attract economic activity.

If you don't think a whole ton of landing fees, extra fees, surcharges, extra charges, taxes, aren't coming for the perceived entitlement class, you aren't paying attention.

Just wait.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The average person understands the value to the community of the local rec center or library, unfortunately they don't understand the value to the community of the local small airport. This is exacerbated by the perception that the pilots using the airport are just rich people in their "private" airplanes selfishly making noise that bothers the town residents.

What is needed and works is a concerted effort by the GA community to lobby the local governments and sell the value of the airport. COPA has a lot of resources to help make the case and some discrete lobbying can help especially playing the medivac card. Instead you usually just see a lot of whinging but no action until the airport is gone.......

[photofly]

So YYZ shouldn't have landing fees? It's a community airport.

It's not owned and run by a municipality, like CYOS is.

Landing fees are a silly way for an underused airport to raise revenue, because they are a reverse incentive - they discourage landings. They make some sense for a congested airport, but CYOS isn't that.

[digits_]

So YYZ shouldn't have landing fees? It's a community airport. Downtown Toronto parking should be free? No property taxes?

Because, you know, we have to attract economic activity.

Is CYOS suffering from too much traffic? Does it need to be restricted because the airport can't handle any more traffic? If the answer is 'no', landing fees don't make sense. Same with parking fees. If you want to attract visitors, you don't charge parking fees. If you want to keep them away because everything is overcrowded, then it does make sense.

I would abolish, or at least seriously reform, the property taxes and increase income tax. If you retire or lose your job, and your house is paid off, at least the state won't auction off your home. But that's a whole other discussion.

If you don't think a whole ton of landing fees, extra fees, surcharges, extra charges, taxes, aren't coming for the perceived entitlement class, you aren't paying attention.

Again, that's a completely different discussion.

[rookiepilot]

The average person understands the value to the community of the local rec center or library, unfortunately they don't understand the value to the community of the local small airport. This is exacerbated by the perception that the pilots using the airport are just rich people in their "private" airplanes selfishly making noise that bothers the town residents.

What is needed and works is a concerted effort by the GA community to lobby the local governments and sell the value of the airport. COPA has a lot of resources to help make the case and some discrete lobbying can help especially playing the medivac card. Instead you usually just see a lot of whinging but no action until the airport is gone.......

Good luck.

There isn't a business case for CYOS, as is obvious to anyone around here. There are 2 other airports in close proximity for medivac, and Owen sound isn't anyone's destination.

I've landed at most every (paved) airport in southern Ontario, and a bunch in the north. No accident I've never had even an excuse to land at CYOS.

The library comparison is just ridiculous.

[photofly]

Owen sound isn't anyone's destination.

It should be: it's a lovely town, fabulous weather in the Summer, right on the Bruce trail (which passes within a half mile of the airport) and there's a lot of good hunting around too.

There's one flight school and one AME at the airport. With a bit of effort, it could have a lot more businesses there, and it might become a money maker for the town. There's a lot of room for expansion. Unfortunately there's no imagination to match, and the airport is about to get taxed to death.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

Now I'm curious how many pilots would be willing to buy and operate a small town airport with their own money.

Prediction: Crickets.

I've never been there, but it looks like a pilot named Clayton Smith bought Orillia Airport and has turned it into quite the destination, and it's only a 30 minute flight away from Owen Sound.

New hangars, repaved runway, updated restaurant and shopping... All done with NO landing fees.

https://www.flyorillia.ca/

So, there are people out there putting up their own money to buy airports.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The average person understands the value to the community of the local rec center or library, unfortunately they don't understand the value to the community of the local small airport. This is exacerbated by the perception that the pilots using the airport are just rich people in their "private" airplanes selfishly making noise that bothers the town residents.

What is needed and works is a concerted effort by the GA community to lobby the local governments and sell the value of the airport. COPA has a lot of resources to help make the case and some discrete lobbying can help especially playing the medivac card. Instead you usually just see a lot of whinging but no action until the airport is gone.......

Good luck.

There isn't a business case for CYOS, as is obvious to anyone around here. There are 2 other airports in close proximity for medivac, and Owen sound isn't anyone's destination.

I've landed at most every (paved) airport in southern Ontario, and a bunch in the north. No accident I've never had even an excuse to land at CYOS.

The library comparison is just ridiculous.

It is easy to be negative, but when airports are gone they almost never come back. Ultimately it is up to the local pilot group to decide if they want to make the effort to keep the airport viable. The current policy is a death sentence.

Rookiepilot would you be so dismissive if it was your airport ?

[digits_]

The library comparison is just ridiculous.

Why? It's at the core of the issue.

Why does an airport need to make money, but a library doesn't?