Insurance help

[aero220]

Hi,

I recently found an aircraft I would like to buy some block time on.

Unfortunately, the current insurance policy for the aircraft requires 25 hours on type prior to being able to take the aircraft solo. I’m sure the owner doesn’t want to sit beside me for the next 25 hours, and I won’t be able to do some of the longer cross-country stay overs I had planned.

I am wanting to find my own liability and non-owned hull insurance and was looking for some advice.

Does anyone have the Marsh silver wings plan? It looks like it would work for me, but I can not access the actual policy documents, and everyone I call from the company just transfers me to some else’s voicemail.

Would it be correct to say this plan would give me coverage on any plane under 8,000lbs? Is there other hoops to jump trough like a check out or time on type to use this insurance? Is there another company that would be good to speak to?

Thanks!

[digits_]

Marsh silver wings covers liability and ground insurance (if you choose that option) only. It doesn't cover hull insurance. The owner might not be happy with that.

I'm not sure if in practice the insurance companies will allow 2 people to have an insurance policy on one airplane. The most common option would be for you to get added to the current insurance policy. Did you ask of the 25 hour requirement could get waived for an extra fee?

[PilotDAR]

It's been a while since I read a Silver Wings policy. But, when I last did, I remember thinking that there were conditions I was not relaxed with. Read and understand every word in the policy before you select it. Then ask yourself if everything you think is insured - is...

If the insurer is asking for 25 hours dual, it's unlikely you'll get around that. Insurers may have trouble measuring pilot skill on a more advanced type, based upon a pilot report. Suffice it to say that when I have flown some or all of that 25 hours with a new pilot, a large portion of that time was warranted by the candidate pilot skill. Don't avoid training, particularly type training - but make the most of it! Get a good mentor pilot, and go and learn something with them, don't just burn holes in the sky with the right seat pilot looking out the right window!

There have been a couple of times, following as much as twenty hours of dual on type, I have declined to sign off the candidate pilot, I just did not think they had the minimum skill. I'm convinced that gaining the skill is possible for nearly every pilot, we all have the right to learn, but some pilots really do need the type training, and the insurers have some statistics to support their interest in training.

Embrace it, resistance is futile!

[ahramin]

You will not be able to insure an aircraft you do not own. The best you can do will be rental liability insurance which will only cover you if you are at fault.

the current insurance policy for the aircraft requires 25 hours on type prior to being able to take the aircraft solo.

That is most likely a blanket pilot clause which covers any pilot that has 25 hours on type. It doesn't mean you need 25 hours, it means if you don't have 25 hours, you need to be a named pilot instead. Just ask the owner to add you as a named pilot.

[PilotDAR]

The best you can do will be rental liability insurance which will only cover you if you are at fault.

Or, more precisely, will cover you if you are successfully sued for being at fault. Prior to that, the insurer will expect you to defend yourself (and the insurer) in the lawsuit. That means that the person who rented you the plane in the first place will have to sue you, and be successful, to see a return, and in the midst, you cannot say "Sorry, my bad, here's the insurance money". The insurer would not cover it then.

So that insurance might seem like a good idea on the surface, but it will place a big expectation of effort on the owner who's plane is bent, and you can't do a think to make things better for the owner. I looked into that type of insurance, and declined the idea. You're best named on the present airplane insurance under it's terms....

[photofly]

To be fair, the insurance company doesn’t need a lawsuit to be issued; they just don’t want you admitting liability off the bat. Say nothing, and direct all correspondence to the insurer. It’s not onerous.

When it comes to legal defence, it’s usually a clause that they handle it. You just have to cooperate.

[Big Pistons Forever]

You will not be able to insure an aircraft you do not own. The best you can do will be rental liability insurance which will only cover you if you are at fault.

the current insurance policy for the aircraft requires 25 hours on type prior to being able to take the aircraft solo.

That is most likely a blanket pilot clause which covers any pilot that has 25 hours on type. It doesn't mean you need 25 hours, it means if you don't have 25 hours, you need to be a named pilot instead. Just ask the owner to add you as a named pilot.

This is an important point. I would suggest the owner contact the insurance broker he/she uses and ask what would be required to add you to the insurance policy. Depending on the airplane type and your experience there may be no charge to add you as a named pilot.

If they still want 25 hours there is the possibility to reduce the amount after some training and a letter from the instructor. I had this happen with a warbird checkout. The owner was fully qualified to fly the airplane after 10 hours. I wrote the insurance company a letter saying that and they waved the additional training. However he was a very professional and proficient pilot

In another case on the same type the client got the full 25 hours and needed every minute.

Personally I won’t fly any airplane on a blanket policy clause ( ie any pilot with XX experience is covered). I want to be a named pilot so there is no doubt I am covered.

[kilo3bravo]

It's always best to come up with a training proposal to give your broker, before approaching the insurance company. Most underwriters will appreciate that you and your broker have already considered what it will take for you to become proficient on the aircraft. Otherwise, they'll be forced to lob out a number based on their analysis of your flight experience.

The easiest method to protect yourself and the owner is to have yourself added as a named pilot to the policy. Most policies will look to protect both individuals, unless there is gross/willful negligence or a breach in the regs involved.

That said, there are exceptions.... so always read the language! An insurance policy is designed to protect the policyholder. The owner's policy will protect HIM against liability or damages arising from the use of THEIR aircraft, it does not always look to protect you (e.g. you damage the aircraft, the owner gets paid - the insurance company turns around and sues you to recover costs). Second, double check the policy wording to ensure you are covered for liabilities arising from YOUR negligence as a named pilot. If it doesn't, ask the broker to include language that will capture this. If the policy they purchased is worth any salt, they should be able to do this. If in doubt, ask the broker to verify policy language, that's what you pay them for.

[photofly]

An insurance policy is designed to protect the policyholder.

The best idea is to ask to included both as a named pilot and as a named or additional insured. Then you insurance company works for you, too.

[Elspekost]

This was the right decision to get the insurance. The last time I had an accident, the insurance company paid for everything. This was such a relief for me. You can even get your life ensured and make sure that your family receives some big money if you kick the bucket. Think about that. Planes are dangerous, and who knows what might happen. You never know, but it’s cool to think about things in advance. It doesn’t cost so much after all. I have ensured my life for $10000. Not a lot, but still. It will at least be enough for the funeral expenses.