Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
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Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
It seems that a lot of these weather related accidents happen because of self induced pressure. A flight is set up with friends to go somewhere and one doesn't want to disappoint. That is why I prefer not to do recreational flying with other people where there is a mission(such as attending a party, going hunting, etc).
I remember taking some acquaintances down to an airshow quite a few years ago. They liked airplanes, as in fighters and bombers at airshows but knew little about general aviation flying. It turned out to be a nice day but was a quarter mile in fog when the first guy arrived at the airport. His comment....weather looks good eh? As if he is going to understand the perils of marginal VFR let alone IFR in our VFR only aircraft.
But pilots frequently set up get togethers with their friends or family and end up doing dangerous stuff instead of biting the bullet and saying no with the inevitable disappointment. And who wants to have their buds remembering for years over beers that their hunting trip was cancelled because you wouldn't go flying but other aircraft were flying that day. The pressure is there, even when they are saying the right things about cancelling a flight.
It was different in the past but now I just try to just fly VFR cross countries by myself but if I were to go with someone, the preference would be for something where there is little disappointment if there is a cancellation or change of destination. It can be helpful to explain to people well in advance that there is a good chance in disappointment.
This guy had a family party to attend. He put a lot of effort into it before crashing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCUheRin9U
I remember taking some acquaintances down to an airshow quite a few years ago. They liked airplanes, as in fighters and bombers at airshows but knew little about general aviation flying. It turned out to be a nice day but was a quarter mile in fog when the first guy arrived at the airport. His comment....weather looks good eh? As if he is going to understand the perils of marginal VFR let alone IFR in our VFR only aircraft.
But pilots frequently set up get togethers with their friends or family and end up doing dangerous stuff instead of biting the bullet and saying no with the inevitable disappointment. And who wants to have their buds remembering for years over beers that their hunting trip was cancelled because you wouldn't go flying but other aircraft were flying that day. The pressure is there, even when they are saying the right things about cancelling a flight.
It was different in the past but now I just try to just fly VFR cross countries by myself but if I were to go with someone, the preference would be for something where there is little disappointment if there is a cancellation or change of destination. It can be helpful to explain to people well in advance that there is a good chance in disappointment.
This guy had a family party to attend. He put a lot of effort into it before crashing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCUheRin9U
- youhavecontrol
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Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
Great advice. I wonder how many incidents were caused because of the pressure of not disappointing your friends.
Thankfully I have avoided most of that pressure over the years at the cost of sounding like a total wet-blanket. When friends come to me like, "Hey you can fly! Can you fly us to ..." I often have to do the bummer speech of how it will take longer, be more expensive and likely have to cancel due to weather.
Thankfully I have avoided most of that pressure over the years at the cost of sounding like a total wet-blanket. When friends come to me like, "Hey you can fly! Can you fly us to ..." I often have to do the bummer speech of how it will take longer, be more expensive and likely have to cancel due to weather.
"I found that Right Rudder you kept asking for."
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
+1 !pelmet wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:16 pm It seems that a lot of these weather related accidents happen because of self induced pressure. A flight is set up with friends to go somewhere and one doesn't want to disappoint. That is why I prefer not to do recreational flying with other people where there is a mission(such as attending a party, going hunting, etc).
I remember taking some acquaintances down to an airshow quite a few years ago. They liked airplanes, as in fighters and bombers at airshows but knew little about general aviation flying. It turned out to be a nice day but was a quarter mile in fog when the first guy arrived at the airport. His comment....weather looks good eh? As if he is going to understand the perils of marginal VFR let alone IFR in our VFR only aircraft.
But pilots frequently set up get togethers with their friends or family and end up doing dangerous stuff instead of biting the bullet and saying no with the inevitable disappointment. And who wants to have their buds remembering for years over beers that their hunting trip was cancelled because you wouldn't go flying but other aircraft were flying that day. The pressure is there, even when they are saying the right things about cancelling a flight.
It was different in the past but now I just try to just fly VFR cross countries by myself but if I were to go with someone, the preference would be for something where there is little disappointment if there is a cancellation or change of destination. It can be helpful to explain to people well in advance that there is a good chance in disappointment.
This guy had a family party to attend. He put a lot of effort into it before crashing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROCUheRin9U
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
I have never heard of this guy before, but he was able to explain fairly well between 12:25-21:20, the point I was trying to to get across.youhavecontrol wrote: ↑Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:00 am Great advice. I wonder how many incidents were caused because of the pressure of not disappointing your friends.
Thankfully I have avoided most of that pressure over the years at the cost of sounding like a total wet-blanket. When friends come to me like, "Hey you can fly! Can you fly us to ..." I often have to do the bummer speech of how it will take longer, be more expensive and likely have to cancel due to weather.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYRN-sWK8qc
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
If you can afford your own plane, you can afford to tie the plane down somewhere, get a taxi to the nearest airport and fly commercial to that important engagement - or get a rental car and drive the rest of the way; then come back and get the plane later when the weather clears.
I think I lost count of the number of times I've had to do that.
I think I lost count of the number of times I've had to do that.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
- rookiepilot
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Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
+100 to this thread.
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
In a similar vein and somehow I cannot find the article anymore but I was reading about a crew setting up for Departure in the States in what looked like awful thunderstorm's weather. Somehow Airliners kept launching into it!
So when this particular crew was about to line up they took their courage by hands saying that they would hold it on the ground for the time being due to weather.
Right after their call, all the others lined up behind on the taxiway said the same thing!
It's like nobody wanted to be the first one calling it Off or that if everyone needed that little nudge to take the correct decision...
So when this particular crew was about to line up they took their courage by hands saying that they would hold it on the ground for the time being due to weather.
Right after their call, all the others lined up behind on the taxiway said the same thing!
It's like nobody wanted to be the first one calling it Off or that if everyone needed that little nudge to take the correct decision...
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
There is a mission every time a commercial pilot goes to work, many of them also flying VFR only aircraft. Weighing safety against getting the job done or not disappointing your passengers can be difficult. Any time I cancel a flight I tend to spend the rest of the day staring at the weather to see if I made the right call or not. One tip I can give you is to not tell your friends the flight is outright cancelled but say that right now it is delayed due to weather. This can put some of the decision making in their lap. If the delay gets too long they'll realize there's no point waiting more, let's just go home and try another day.
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Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
Never heard of him before either. One of the best YouTube videos I've watched in a long time. Good find Pelmet!pelmet wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:25 am I have never heard of this guy before, but he was able to explain fairly well between 12:25-21:20, the point I was trying to to get across.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYRN-sWK8qc
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
It's only human, but don't. It will drive you nuts.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
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Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
Not only that, and maybe more importantly, you'll drive the people around you nuts.
I'm not sure what's more depressing: That everyone has a price, or how low the price always is.
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
I cancel planned flights all the time. I don't care if people are disappointed because I usually am too! It is what it is...
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright
Re: Minimize planning flights where cancellation causes great disappointment
Actually, the call is based on the forecast(or observations at the time), not how things actually turn out.Squaretail wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:40 pmNot only that, and maybe more importantly, you'll drive the people around you nuts.