R-44 Fatal Accident - Alberta

[rookiepilot]

But you want to put a requirement on the night rating that's more onerous than that required for the instrument rating

Going from point A to B under the hood is a very small subset of what has to be done to obtain an instrument rating.

When you do lose visual reference in night VFR, it's instrument proficiency that will keep you alive.

Seems tough with the instruments removed.

[Bede]

For a night rating, pilots should be required to do a night cross country under the hood.

The ones that can't handle it will understand why they should stick with day VFR - or get a TSB report for a tombstone.

The vast majority of folks who get a night rating know about, understand, and respect weather. But you want to put a requirement on the night rating that's more onerous than that required for the instrument rating because of the rare few, and just ignore the fact that those few will figure out ways to kill themselves in spite of all the hurdles you put in front of them to try prevent it.

Do you work at the TSB ?

Changes to night rating requirements are coming down the pipe. Will need a clear horizon or the flight must be under IFR or have night vision goggles.

[cncpc]

Excuse me...night vision goggles?

[cncpc]

It probably should be said here that there are very significant differences in flying a fixed wing at night, and a helicopter at night, especially one eager to chop its own tail off.

[karmutzen]

It probably should be said here that there are very significant differences in flying a fixed wing at night, and a helicopter at night, especially one eager to chop its own tail off.

Yeah, helicopters don't really have the same positive stability as an airplane. In IMC or night without a horizon it gets demanding on pilot skill. This R44 was missing some required instruments, but did have a Stratus box giving high quality gyro info through his iPad that could have more than made up for it.

I flew a few years of hard IFR, some single pilot, on a Bell 222UT. Same stability as this R44, as in none except a force trim. But that was after a few thousand hours, the disconnect here is between the training and licensing and the reality of difficult winter flying.

The R44 is no more eager than any other helicopter to chop its tail off. Just like the Bell 429 that just did that in NJ isn't eager to do so either - and that was in daytime, not night. No relevance here, but does expose the poster as a classic "Robbie-basher", someone inclined to irrationally find fault in a helicopter type because it is an inexpensive piston instead of turbine heavy iron. A reputation consequence of the type's popularity with private pilots and their relative inexperience compared to professional pilots.

[cncpc]

No relevance here, but does expose the poster as a classic "Robbie-basher", someone inclined to irrationally find fault in a helicopter type because it is an inexpensive piston instead of turbine heavy iron.

No it doesn't. They are dangerous shitboxes in the hands of the very people they are marketed to. That is complicated by TMS in this accident. I don't "irrationally find fault" Sonny. That is like saying "first responders irrationally find bodies of innocent passengers".

Carry on.

[‘Bob’]

What conditions does an R44 cut its tail off

Probably same thing as mast bump in a semirigid Bell product.

In any case if you are in a rotorcraft that induces those conditions due to disorientation you are dead. Even an ASTAR or BK117. It’s just that in those helicopters you will fly into the ground intact.

[J31]

No relevance here, but does expose the poster as a classic "Robbie-basher", someone inclined to irrationally find fault in a helicopter type because it is an inexpensive piston instead of turbine heavy iron.

No it doesn't. They are dangerous shitboxes in the hands of the very people they are marketed to. That is complicated by TMS in this accident. I don't "irrationally find fault" Sonny. That is like saying "first responders irrationally find bodies of innocent passengers".

Carry on.

What is TMS?

[J31]

He got into a right hand spiral dive and recovered about 111 feet from the ground. The climbed up to 300 AGL and entered a left spiral dive and hit the ground intact.

From the report: "The main rotor severed the tail boom in front of the horizontal stabilizer during the impact sequence, which also severed the tail rotor drive shaft and tail rotor pitch control shaft. The main rotor transmission and mast had broken away from the airframe. The main rotor assembly was still mounted to the mast, and the mast to the transmission. The main rotor blades showed distortion from contact with the ground and the tail boom."

The Robbie is not he safest nor forgiving helicopter out there, however it would have been the same result in a JetRanger or AStar.

[cncpc]

No relevance here, but does expose the poster as a classic "Robbie-basher", someone inclined to irrationally find fault in a helicopter type because it is an inexpensive piston instead of turbine heavy iron.

No it doesn't. They are dangerous shitboxes in the hands of the very people they are marketed to. That is complicated by TMS in this accident. I don't "irrationally find fault" Sonny. That is like saying "first responders irrationally find bodies of innocent passengers".

Carry on.

What is TMS?

Thurman Munson Syndrome