More WJ layoffs

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Mach1
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by Mach1 »

altiplano wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:10 am Except he is...
So, you don't feel the company has taken "its most valuable resource, a dedicated pilot body that would LITERALLY pick garbage for free, and destroyed it with childish infantile revenge"?

I strongly disagree with you on that point. The company has completely forsaken the value of morale and culture that built the success they have had to date and have adopted a antagonistic, "people are a cost not an asset" ideology.
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altiplano
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by altiplano »

Mach1 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 8:41 am
altiplano wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:10 am Except he is...
So, you don't feel the company has taken "its most valuable resource, a dedicated pilot body that would LITERALLY pick garbage for free, and destroyed it with childish infantile revenge"?

I strongly disagree with you on that point. The company has completely forsaken the value of morale and culture that built the success they have had to date and have adopted a antagonistic, "people are a cost not an asset" ideology.
I think we are talking about different things.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by YC87DRVR »

Further 106 being recalled October & November.
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stabilizer
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by stabilizer »

Further 106 being recalled October & November.
At full WAWCON too, as per the CA.

Imagine where we'd be if we voted for extended concessions. We'd all be eating sh!t for years to come.

Short term pain, long term gain.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by YC87DRVR »

stabilizer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:57 pm
Further 106 being recalled October & November.
At full WAWCON too, as per the CA.

Imagine where we'd be if we voted for extended concessions. We'd all be eating sh!t for years to come.

Short term pain, long term gain.
Who knows, none of us have a crystal ball.
Maybe the MOA’s would have been done by now, so we’d be back at full WAWCON with even greater numbers still employed cause the last round of layoffs wouldn’t have had to happen. The last two recall PSB’s numbers still fall short of the total number that lost their jobs/livelyhood/ability to put food on the table when the last vote failed.

Gain for a few, pain for many.
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JoeyBarton
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by JoeyBarton »

So how many WJ pilots left on the street?
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imjustlurking
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by imjustlurking »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 am So how many WJ pilots left on the street?
From what I've gathered, around 650 across the companies at the beginning of this month.
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fish4life
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by fish4life »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 am So how many WJ pilots left on the street?
Heard a rumour by May 1 all are going to be back working but I haven’t seen anything confirming it.
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imjustlurking
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by imjustlurking »

fish4life wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:26 am
JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:04 am So how many WJ pilots left on the street?
Heard a rumour by May 1 all are going to be back working but I haven’t seen anything confirming it.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by YC87DRVR »

All back by May 1st was an agreement made while in recent arbitration/dispute with Kaplan, among other things.
But of course there’s a clause at that end, similar to the clauses seen over and over in the pilots CBA, “unless due to circumstances out of the companies control”.
While I would love for it to come to fruition, part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:22 amWhile I would love for it to come to frui. Aption, part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.
Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.
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YC87DRVR
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by YC87DRVR »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:16 am
YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:22 amWhile I would love for it to come to frui. Aption, part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.
Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.
Well firstly, many years of experiences has led me to believe they enjoy exercising those clauses, but they do so strategically not to cause “suffering” as you said.
Secondly, you should google the definition of a sociopath and then google another insult to use towards me that actually works in this context.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

YC87DRVR wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:31 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:16 am
YC87DRVR wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:22 amWhile I would love for it to come to fruition, a part of me thinks management actually enjoys giving us these carrots and then taking them away, just because they can and covid will certainly still be around and a valid reason to exercise that clause.
Which part of you thinks this? The sociopath part?

Seriously, there are people within WJ tasked with negotiations and they have a goal of saving $$$ but I don't honestly believe they have a desire to cause suffering.
Well firstly, many years of experiences has led me to believe they enjoy exercising those clauses, but they do so strategically not to cause “suffering” as you said.
Secondly, you should google the definition of a Secondly and then google another insult to use towards me that actually works in this context.
so·ci·o·path
/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
Learn to pronounce
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

My point, and perhaps it was a bit obscure, was that you are accusing some people at WJ, who you group under the all encompassing term of "management" of being sociopathic in their behaviour. It has been my observation that we often see in others what we ourselves experience or exhibit. For a
Qyou to see sociopathic behaviour in a nameless group of people, I wondered if the part of you that views the world through that lens is sociopathic or unable to experience empathy for the suffering of others.

To address your first paragraph 1, what exactly in your many years of experience leads you to believe that this group of people enjoys causing suffering to a group of people? Laying people off inevitability leads to suffering for some.

And I wouldn't call it an insult. My original post asked a question.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by ALPApolicy »

I wonder if the people who choose commerce or a business administration in university or college already enjoy giving things to people and then taking them away or if the learn that as part of their education. Or do people who end up in management learn this stuff (how to enjoy giving things to people and then taking them away) from colleagues over drinks or at management seminars? Or is it just an aviation thing based on your (lived) experiences? Is it a pilot thing? Maybe pilots secretly like giving things to people and then taking those things back.

When people are interviewed for management positions, do they specifically get asked if they like giving things to people and then taking them away?

So many questions I have.
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lostaviator
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by lostaviator »

As excited as I was to read the May 1 full employment agreement, I don't think it has much value as it carries a very large out. Fifth wave in Alberta? Out of our control.

I don't think the art of giving and then taking is taught in business school, but I do imagine it is something taught in law school and I think a lot of our issues come from a department outside of flight ops management. Think former CP labour and legal team.

I believe our group is always going to struggle with these issues. We are an expensive and well educated (mostly) group who tend to hang around for our entire careers (not jump ship after "free" flights have lost their novelty). A FA group within our "group" recently voted in a contract giving their peers a C scale and taking a smaller chunk of change now vs waiting a year for more. I mean - really???? There's a reason other groups don't have the issues we do.

Side note. Wall Street (1987 - Michael Douglas) is on WJ connect. I haven't been sleeping much since watching it. Large fund buying an airline. stripping it to pieces, then canning all the staff. Ouch. Maybe our contract and LOU problems aren't the biggest threat we'll be dealing with.
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cloak
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by cloak »

No good comes from paranoid speculation. A lot depends on the pandemic and government regulations that directly affect air travel. Naturally that is reflected in the agreement. Hopefully everyone will be back by May, and soon there’ll be a business friendly government with less interference and taxes…
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JoeyBarton
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by JoeyBarton »

With the recent news of encore hiring, how many remain on the street at the wj/swoop bargaining unit?
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imjustlurking
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by imjustlurking »

JoeyBarton wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:44 am With the recent news of encore hiring, how many remain on the street at the wj/swoop bargaining unit?
There are still Encore pilots not yet recalled.

Encore pilots are anticipated to have all received recall offers by Q1 of 2022 and WJA/WSW are obligated to receive their recall offer date for no later than May 2022 IIRC.
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sstaurus
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by sstaurus »

Any word around the water cooler that the latest developments may result in a change of plans to current recalls?
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imjustlurking
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Re: More WJ layoffs

Post by imjustlurking »

sstaurus wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:47 am Any word around the water cooler that the latest developments may result in a change of plans to current recalls?
The recalls are the result of a grievance award. From what I've heard and experienced, the recalls are going to continue as planned.

With that, and I'm sure that Altiplano and Transition9er2 are going to use this again as "proof" that I'm not a pilot... I am not a WJA pilot, so take my opinion and experience with a grain of salt.
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