I've noticed a few comments regarding getting a trade to tie you over during the latest downturn. I'd like to hear from any pilots who have done this.
Sure you can get a job in the trades and work for a few years as a grunt but to get a ticket is a 4 year commitment. You get a job, register with the provincial board, put in so many working hours and apply for 1st year school. It could take a few months or more to get in as classes fill up quickly. Did your employee promise you a job on finishing, good, if not you're back in the job market. The first and second year apprentice jobs are easier to find as the pay is less. But after 3rd and 4th year if you don't have a steady employer the jobs are harder to find because like everywhere else a job has a lot of lower paid 2nd 3rd year and a few higher paid ticked guys/gals. A lot of trades are seasonal, be sure to factor that in. Also I'd imagine after a employer had a few apprentices bail to go back flying they'd be doing a closer background check.
just my take on the idea.
Get a Trade discussion
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flyingcanuck
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Re: Get a Trade discussion
I always hated that people would say that.. "just get a trade". No its not that easy unless you are willing to commit to it for like you said, 4+ years. And lets be for real, lets say you become an electrician, you going to just stop and go back to flying and not keep up on new techniques and regulations? Probably not.
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Bug_Stomper_01
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Re: Get a Trade discussion
.This isn’t a great option for pilots, it is however for AMEs. There is a trade equivalency assessment in every province that will credit time towards whatever trade they’re going into based on education and experience that they can align with said trade they are challenging. In alberta and Ontario being the largest that make this available you can have up to all time minus the last year of apprenticeship accredited for minus one year of apprenticeship and 8 weeks (normally) of the last year of schooling required. You do however have to challenge the first two three or four years of exams for this to amount to a licence. I know this first hand as I am a red seal journeyman in two trades.Pacqing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:23 am I've noticed a few comments regarding getting a trade to tie you over during the latest downturn. I'd like to hear from any pilots who have done this.
Sure you can get a job in the trades and work for a few years as a grunt but to get a ticket is a 4 year commitment. You get a job, register with the provincial board, put in so many working hours and apply for 1st year school. It could take a few months or more to get in as classes fill up quickly. Did your employee promise you a job on finishing, good, if not you're back in the job market. The first and second year apprentice jobs are easier to find as the pay is less. But after 3rd and 4th year if you don't have a steady employer the jobs are harder to find because like everywhere else a job has a lot of lower paid 2nd 3rd year and a few higher paid ticked guys/gals. A lot of trades are seasonal, be sure to factor that in. Also I'd imagine after a employer had a few apprentices bail to go back flying they'd be doing a closer background check.
just my take on the idea.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
Getting a trade is generally for one of these three reasons.
1 It’s what you always wanted to do as a career.
2 It’s a starting point to build yourself up financially to afford a different career (this was my case. Always wanted to fly, couldn’t afford to).
3 It’s reactionary because of life setbacks or lack of opportunities elsewhere.
If your goal is to be a wide body captain at Air Canada, you go to their hiring page and look at the requirements. It says degree or aviation diploma so from there you work backwards and either enrol in an aviation college or get a university degree. You see that you have four or five years for a degree, a year or two for flight training, and probably another 8 or so until you are on property. This means at age 14 or so you’re going to have to be getting your electives and extracurriculars in order and your grades pulled up if you haven’t already in order to get that university admission so you can have a mainline seat by the time you’re 30.
Now, not all airlines require degrees. If you are fine with Westjet or Flair then forget it and maybe get to building that precious seniority sooner. But you’re limiting your options.
At no place in the career prep for an airline pilot job is there, “go get an unrelated trade”. It’s meaningless. It does nothing to further your career unless it was to pay for training or perhaps to weather low pay and bad times like these.
You’re still going to come up short when things finally start moving again. And if you’re HR at an airline that doesn’t need a degree and one guy has a degree and one has a trade, which one will you hire? Unless that job also means coming in on reserve days and doing building maintenance, it’s going to be the degree holder every time. It adds more value to your Human Resources without costing you anything.
A lot can happen in the time it takes to even get the training for a trade. Better idea is if you have the aptitude and hand skills already (which you should if you’re even considering a trade) is to get odd jobs for cash or be a labourer rather than go down a path you never considered before.
Unless you fit into scenario 3. You’re sick of aviation or can no longer make it and you have no other way to make a decent living or no time left to climb the seniority ladder. Then yeah, get a trade and hang up the headset and join the ranks of pilots who ensure the top of the aviation pyramid is narrow and well paid for those who were able to stick it out.
1 It’s what you always wanted to do as a career.
2 It’s a starting point to build yourself up financially to afford a different career (this was my case. Always wanted to fly, couldn’t afford to).
3 It’s reactionary because of life setbacks or lack of opportunities elsewhere.
If your goal is to be a wide body captain at Air Canada, you go to their hiring page and look at the requirements. It says degree or aviation diploma so from there you work backwards and either enrol in an aviation college or get a university degree. You see that you have four or five years for a degree, a year or two for flight training, and probably another 8 or so until you are on property. This means at age 14 or so you’re going to have to be getting your electives and extracurriculars in order and your grades pulled up if you haven’t already in order to get that university admission so you can have a mainline seat by the time you’re 30.
Now, not all airlines require degrees. If you are fine with Westjet or Flair then forget it and maybe get to building that precious seniority sooner. But you’re limiting your options.
At no place in the career prep for an airline pilot job is there, “go get an unrelated trade”. It’s meaningless. It does nothing to further your career unless it was to pay for training or perhaps to weather low pay and bad times like these.
You’re still going to come up short when things finally start moving again. And if you’re HR at an airline that doesn’t need a degree and one guy has a degree and one has a trade, which one will you hire? Unless that job also means coming in on reserve days and doing building maintenance, it’s going to be the degree holder every time. It adds more value to your Human Resources without costing you anything.
A lot can happen in the time it takes to even get the training for a trade. Better idea is if you have the aptitude and hand skills already (which you should if you’re even considering a trade) is to get odd jobs for cash or be a labourer rather than go down a path you never considered before.
Unless you fit into scenario 3. You’re sick of aviation or can no longer make it and you have no other way to make a decent living or no time left to climb the seniority ladder. Then yeah, get a trade and hang up the headset and join the ranks of pilots who ensure the top of the aviation pyramid is narrow and well paid for those who were able to stick it out.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
Getting a ‘trade’ does not mean having to go to school, going through the ‘apprenticeship’ program etc. You can likely take a night class, or better yet, get a job as a labourer and learn on the job.
You don’t need a red seal to do renovation work for instance. In a lot of places, it’s the smaller jobs like redoing a bathroom or building a deck that the ‘trades’ are not willing to do, but a person with some skills can earn an ok living doing these smaller jobs that no one else wants to do. Basic electrical, plumbing and carpentry can all be done by one feller. Sure it likely looks better on paper to be ‘certified’, but is not required to replace some windows or shingle a roof.
You don’t need a red seal to do renovation work for instance. In a lot of places, it’s the smaller jobs like redoing a bathroom or building a deck that the ‘trades’ are not willing to do, but a person with some skills can earn an ok living doing these smaller jobs that no one else wants to do. Basic electrical, plumbing and carpentry can all be done by one feller. Sure it likely looks better on paper to be ‘certified’, but is not required to replace some windows or shingle a roof.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
I live in a smaller community with a local paper, it usually has 2 pages off adds with guys exactly like that advertising to reno any room etc.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
If you are going to plug away at a trade for something in a 4-5 year commitment do something in the construction trades. It's easier to become self employed after if you stay in the industry longer than expected and with minimal investment in equipment and tools compared to something like automotive or heavy duty mechanics. I personally have approx 40k in tools from my "previous life" in automotives and that was working on primarily 1 brand at a dealer. My friends working in more general shops have even more invested in tools.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
Am I the only one who finds it strange that in considering a career as a pilot, you also need to consider a trade as a backup?
When one is deciding to embark on a career as an electrician, or a machinist, do they consider getting a CPL as a backup?
It should be a bit of an eyeopener to those embarking on an aviation career to have to think about a second career option.
When one is deciding to embark on a career as an electrician, or a machinist, do they consider getting a CPL as a backup?
It should be a bit of an eyeopener to those embarking on an aviation career to have to think about a second career option.
Accident speculation:
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Those that post don’t know. Those that know don’t post
Re: Get a Trade discussion
Being a pilot isn't really a job. It's what Levitt and Dubner describe as a tournament. There's an almost inexhaustible supply of people competing for a very few very high-paying jobs, which are achieved by eliminating your rivals and/or persevering longer than they do. The few people on the top rung do very nicely indeed, the much larger number of people on the rung below the top do ok, and everyone else starves, until they get a chance to step up a rung or give up and move out of the field. The vast majority give up before they achieve "success".
It's exactly the same as trying earn money as a pop star or drug dealer.
If you want to earn money as a pop star, drug dealer, or pilot, then yes, you absolutely should get a trade as a backup.
It's exactly the same as trying earn money as a pop star or drug dealer.
If you want to earn money as a pop star, drug dealer, or pilot, then yes, you absolutely should get a trade as a backup.
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
Re: Get a Trade discussion
There are quite some differences. One leads an unhealthy lifestyle, is always on the road, eats unhealthy food, has an irregular sleep pattern, possibly suffers from insomnia and relationship troubles, always cautious where law enforcement might be lurking. The other one sings songs, and the last one sells drugs.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: Get a Trade discussion
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