ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

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Tweezer Assassin
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tweezer Assassin »

As I understand it - Cargojet went to the Minister directly for the exemptions. They were told that they wouldn't get approval without support from the pilots. Company holds a conference call threatening 130 layoffs and 65 downgrades if the application isn't supported. The company and the Union cook up an LOU and the pilots are told to vote and live with the consequences.
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digits_
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by digits_ »

Tweezer Assassin wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:49 am As I understand it - Cargojet went to the Minister directly for the exemptions. They were told that they wouldn't get approval without support from the pilots. Company holds a conference call threatening 130 layoffs and 65 downgrades if the application isn't supported. The company and the Union cook up an LOU and the pilots are told to vote and live with the consequences.
Yeesh, disgusting.

What would be the legal basis to allow exemptions? As far as I can tell, the new rules don't allow for exemptions, except for the FRMS.

When is the vote happening?
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Tweezer Assassin
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tweezer Assassin »

As we speak. Ends tonight at midnight.
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sanjet
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by sanjet »

I understand telling employees how to vote but threatening them with layoffs during the company’s most profitable time in history seems like an insult to the brain.
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Tweezer Assassin
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tweezer Assassin »

No idea with regards to legal basis. Pilots asked the Union to consult a lawyer but were told no.
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alkaseltzer
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by alkaseltzer »

Time for the NTSB & TSB to start sharpening pencils, check their camera gear and do a group huddle.
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Curiousflyer
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Curiousflyer »

Hopefully CargoJet pilots see through this management facade.

There is no way they will move operations to the US, have you seen what cargo pilots make in the US?

There is no way that less restrictive fatigue rules results in more flight crew positions. Over the past year AC has been complaining bitterly about all the extra pilots they’d need with the new fatigue rules.
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newlygrounded
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by newlygrounded »

Curiousflyer wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:11 pm Hopefully CargoJet pilots see through this management facade.

There is no way they will move operations to the US, have you seen what cargo pilots make in the US?

There is no way that less restrictive fatigue rules results in more flight crew positions. Over the past year AC has been complaining bitterly about all the extra pilots they’d need with the new fatigue rules.
If the AC folks are anything to go by, never seen a more gullible group of people than pilots
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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

alkaseltzer wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:17 am Word on the street is that George Sugar offered Sunwing pilots jobs during the fatigue vote.
It's true. We received an email from our MEC outlining preferential hiring of Sunwing pilots. Not a lot of people know, but SWG and CJ are both UNIFOR and are both the same local (UNIFOR 7378). When CJ joined UNIFOR, they did so under Sunwing's umbrella. Each pilot group however maintains their own finances, seniority list, etc.
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flyingcanuck
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by flyingcanuck »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:32 pm
alkaseltzer wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 8:17 am Word on the street is that George Sugar offered Sunwing pilots jobs during the fatigue vote.
It's true. We received an email from our MEC outlining preferential hiring of Sunwing pilots. Not a lot of people know, but SWG and CJ are both UNIFOR and are both the same local (UNIFOR 7378). When CJ joined UNIFOR, they did so under Sunwing's umbrella. Each pilot group however maintains their own finances, seniority list, etc.
We got the same argument for SR and Jazz and look out that turned out
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

WJ and WR have a similar arrangement.
:orcass: :orcass:
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Tbayer2021
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tbayer2021 »

I understand the pilots voted down the LOU. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate CJ pilots for standing up to dirty intimidation tactics from both the company and their own union. May be time to start rethinking UNIFOR representation.
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rudder
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by rudder »

Tbayer2021 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:27 am I understand the pilots voted down the LOU. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate CJ pilots for standing up to dirty intimidation tactics from both the company and their own union. May be time to start rethinking UNIFOR representation.
Why would any professional pilot group in Canada choose UNIFOR for representation?

Morningstar pilots already made the right choice. Time for CJ pilots to do the same. Open period in spring 2023.
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Tbayer2021
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Tbayer2021 »

rudder wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:33 am
Tbayer2021 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:27 am I understand the pilots voted down the LOU. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate CJ pilots for standing up to dirty intimidation tactics from both the company and their own union. May be time to start rethinking UNIFOR representation.
Why would any professional pilot group in Canada choose UNIFOR for representation?

Morningstar pilots already made the right choice. Time for CJ pilots to do the same. Open period in spring 2023.

Wholeheartedly agree! ALPA is not without its fair share of problems, but to argue that you're better off under UNIFOR is just outright delusional.
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digits_
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by digits_ »

Tbayer2021 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:27 am I understand the pilots voted down the LOU. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate CJ pilots for standing up to dirty intimidation tactics from both the company and their own union.
GREAT to hear!
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fish4life
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by fish4life »

Thank you cargo jet pilots for helping fight for the fatigue regulations that were so hard fought for and long overdue.
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Curiousflyer
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by Curiousflyer »

Tbayer2021 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:27 am I understand the pilots voted down the LOU. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate CJ pilots for standing up to dirty intimidation tactics from both the company and their own union. May be time to start rethinking UNIFOR representation.

Congratulations to the CargoJet pilots for standing up for aviation safety in Canada.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:26 pm So much good that did.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... 0sgCjdMOsE
It's behind a paywall I can't read.
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montado
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Re: ALPA Criticizes Cargojet

Post by montado »

DHC-1 Jockey wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 5:57 pm It's behind a paywall I can't read.
Canada’s Cargojet Inc. has threatened to move work to the United States unless it wins exemption from rules aimed at preventing pilot fatigue because of their cost, according to a deal rejected by its pilots seen by Reuters.

Cargojet has said it wants to reduce costs and grow in the United States as Canada’s largest cargo carrier benefits from an increase in air freight demand due to a decline in “belly capacity” from passenger aircraft grounded during the pandemic.

The Ontario-based company, which reported 30% higher quarterly revenues this month, has hired more than 60 pilots in the past three to four months to meet stronger demand and comply with Canadian rules that went into effect in December. Those shorten the number of hours pilots can work at night and extend their rest periods, among other conditions.

But 65% of Cargojet’s 283 pilots on Wednesday voted against supporting the company’s bid for an exemption from regulator Transport Canada, their union Unifor said by email. The company does not need union support for the exemption but hoped to have it.

Cargojet, which operates certain flights for Amazon.com Inc., had offered to protect jobs as part of the deal. Cargojet Chief Executive Ajay Virmani told analysts this month he was seeking a U.S. investment or partner for its “growth strategy across the border.”

Cargojet did not respond to a request for comment. Transport Canada was not immediately available for comment on Wednesday but said on Tuesday it had not received an exemption request from Cargojet.

Cargojet warned that it might have to lay off up to 130 pilots and move “part of its operation” to the United States due to fatigue rules that create “an uneven playing field” with American cargo carriers, according to the proposed deal.

The agreement generated controversy among pilots on both sides of the border, pitting concerns over protecting Canada’s hard-won fatigue rules against jobs at a time when cargo has emerged as an oasis of growth in aviation.

Scott Doherty, a Unifor official, said in an interview it was a problem for “us to be losing jobs to the U.S. during a pandemic because they play by a different set of rules.”

While U.S. cargo pilots have restrictions in their contracts to prevent fatigue, they are not comparably covered by federal regulations.

That disparity is a sore point for U.S. unions, including the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which want the same American rules that protect against fatigue in the cockpit of passenger airlines to also cover cargo operators.
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