How bad is commuting
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Re: How bad is commuting
Not an airline type but commuted to Head Office when employed by regulator in anticipation of a promotion, ladder, climb, better salary, language training etc. I hated the commuting, lonely nights in hotel,walking city streets by myself to kill off days, away from wife and kids etc. I turned down said promotion as that and city living not my lot in life. I tip my hat to you airline pilot guys/gals and yer families who make the commuting lifestyle work as part of the routine of earning your living, your fortitude is much stronger than mine would ever be. Perks(vacation travel, hotels etc.) you do get through airline flying is certainly well deserved including the associated better salaries as you move to bigger aircraft and length of service.
Re: How bad is commuting
I know lots of guys who do YOW to YUL but they drive.Shinyjetsyndrome wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:36 am Has anyone commuted to YYZ or YUL from YOW? Curious what others’ experiences were like. I could see myself living here long term.
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Re: How bad is commuting
This is a charge that is really driving up commuting costs. Westjet always charged the AIF but AC just started charging us for it in January and so now every shift is $90 return. I know there's a class action lawsuit about this but I haven't kept up with how it's going.
The other thing that bears mention is that as of yet, the new duty regs don't specifically cover commuting, but the language is there in black and white, so time will tell if same day commutes become a thing of the past or not. This coupled with the fact that the duty regs make western pilots less flexible to crew sched could force more long commutes on westerners exacerbating this problem.
Re: How bad is commuting
I commuted at WJ, did three 5 day pairings a month and it was a breeze. Always gave myself lots of options to minimize the stress. You have to be smart and open to changes when commuting.
AC, kind of sucks since we don't have the 5 day pairing volume that we did at WJ. Just a different animal. That being said, I picked YYZ over YVR as a base for lifestyle reasons, even though YVR is way closer. I was forecast to be top 35% A320 YYZ FO pre covid, and here I am on the street.
If you commute, you have to embrace it, go with the punches, and realize you're gonna win some and lose some. Know what you can and cannot control.
I buy internet passes for the flights and try to stay productive.
AC, kind of sucks since we don't have the 5 day pairing volume that we did at WJ. Just a different animal. That being said, I picked YYZ over YVR as a base for lifestyle reasons, even though YVR is way closer. I was forecast to be top 35% A320 YYZ FO pre covid, and here I am on the street.
If you commute, you have to embrace it, go with the punches, and realize you're gonna win some and lose some. Know what you can and cannot control.
I buy internet passes for the flights and try to stay productive.
Re: How bad is commuting
Oh also don’t be so f’ing cheap and sit in the airport for 15 hours waiting for a flight or spend the night in the crew room if you do that you will hate commuting. If you spend that time in a hotel or renting a car and going golfing or something it can be enjoyable
Re: How bad is commuting
I thought I enjoyed commuting but after seeing some responses here I must be wrong.
Re: How bad is commuting
Living in yyz = nightmare
Driving to yyz = nightmare
I guess it all depends on your perspective
Driving to yyz = nightmare
I guess it all depends on your perspective
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Re: How bad is commuting
The issue with driving to YYZ is that you're either driving the 400 where, even if you're doing 140, there are people up your ass and passing you on both sides, or you're driving the 401 which is shit in Milton and shit north of Toronto.
I'm sure one day they'll put a regional train that stops at the airport... actually, scrap that, our government can't figure out their ass from their head (it's a wonder people believe that this pandemic was planned).
Re: How bad is commuting
I guess it is a matter of perspective, I agree but I remember not being able to enjoy my time home being worried about not being able to catch my flight back to work.
Once at work, worried about not being able to catch my flight home and sometimes, it is not even worth it to go home if you miss a couple flight.
Also, spending a day in the airport waiting for the gate agent to call your name and...."sorry, try the next one..."
And of course, the crashpad....
And i almost forgot :
The schedule is coming out and....10 days of reserve peppered over a month...now you're not going home...
Once at work, worried about not being able to catch my flight home and sometimes, it is not even worth it to go home if you miss a couple flight.
Also, spending a day in the airport waiting for the gate agent to call your name and...."sorry, try the next one..."
And of course, the crashpad....
And i almost forgot :
The schedule is coming out and....10 days of reserve peppered over a month...now you're not going home...
Re: How bad is commuting
It really depends on the company and the ability to build a commuting schedule.
I know of guys who had to quit regionals because they couldn't/wouldn't/afford relocation from their home to YYZ or YVR.
Personally, I've commuted for every single job except being a flight instructor, and it's generally terrible, but manageable if you put enough thought into it. Do your research, contact every hotel you can for discounts, have a plan B,C, and D for every trip. It gets easier, but then it gets tiresome.
If it's a temporary, rung in the ladder necessary evil, then you can make it work, but as a lifestyle until retirement, yikes. As frog said, the anxiety can be terrible, and perpetual. I've only lost the game once in 7 years and didn't make it, but came wayy too close too many times, and I always planned to come in the day before. Just remember, even if every flight for hours all have 20 open seats, one AOG and they all instantly fill up.
I used to have a 2 hr drive to my base, that wasn't bad. Made for some early mornings, long days, and late nights, I just didn't bid for single days. But it was reliable and, the biggest plus, entirely under my own control.
Later that turned into a commute by plane to YYZ. Not as fun, and downright risky. When things pick up again I'll be doing a 4 hr drive with the truck, towing a nice 24' trailer. Doing three round trips a month and burning tons of propane in the winter is exponentially better than the uncertainty of standby for me, but I always need all my ducks in a row. You might not be as neurotic.
I know of guys who had to quit regionals because they couldn't/wouldn't/afford relocation from their home to YYZ or YVR.
Personally, I've commuted for every single job except being a flight instructor, and it's generally terrible, but manageable if you put enough thought into it. Do your research, contact every hotel you can for discounts, have a plan B,C, and D for every trip. It gets easier, but then it gets tiresome.
If it's a temporary, rung in the ladder necessary evil, then you can make it work, but as a lifestyle until retirement, yikes. As frog said, the anxiety can be terrible, and perpetual. I've only lost the game once in 7 years and didn't make it, but came wayy too close too many times, and I always planned to come in the day before. Just remember, even if every flight for hours all have 20 open seats, one AOG and they all instantly fill up.
I used to have a 2 hr drive to my base, that wasn't bad. Made for some early mornings, long days, and late nights, I just didn't bid for single days. But it was reliable and, the biggest plus, entirely under my own control.
Later that turned into a commute by plane to YYZ. Not as fun, and downright risky. When things pick up again I'll be doing a 4 hr drive with the truck, towing a nice 24' trailer. Doing three round trips a month and burning tons of propane in the winter is exponentially better than the uncertainty of standby for me, but I always need all my ducks in a row. You might not be as neurotic.
Re: How bad is commuting
Hey, don’t let us persuade you otherwise.
Most of life is based on outlook. The person who is truly happy with commuting is always going to be ahead of the person who is miserable while they don’t.
Re: How bad is commuting
It also depends on your situation.
If you're in your 20 ies, and single, it will easier than if you have young kids at home.
If you're in your 20 ies, and single, it will easier than if you have young kids at home.
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Re: How bad is commuting
How about YHZ to YYZ? I know it's obviously pretty bad at the moment but did anyone make this work in normal times?
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Re: How bad is commuting
At the end of the day it comes down to the individual and their own personal situation. I spent the first decade of my airline career living in reasonable proximity to whatever my base happened to be at the time, and after watching friends and colleagues struggle with the stress of commuting I told myself I’d never accept a job where I’d have to do the same.
Lo and behold, COVID-19 hit and I lost my job. After spending the better part of a year unemployed, I was fortunate enough to be offered a flying job in another province. I like where I’m living now, and due to my personal situation I’m not particularly interested in relocating to where the new job is located, thus I’m now commuting back and forth. Is it an ideal situation? Perhaps not - but I feel tremendously fortunate to be flying and making a decent income once again, one that more than offsets the cost of commuting back and forth. After experiencing the struggle of trying to make ends meet on CERB/EI/CEWS, commuting certainly doesn’t seem so bad by comparison.
Would I have ever considered commuting before going through this experience? My answer would have been an emphatic “no” - but here we are. Would I recommend doing it for an entire career if given the choice, certainly not, but our personal circumstances may make it unavoidable, at least temporarily. If you can find a crash pad with a friend or two it certainly makes the time you spend there more enjoyable; I also purchased a second (used) vehicle to keep at work, which makes life much easier for getting around, purchasing groceries so you’re not always forced to go with Uber Eats, etc. There are certainly things like that that you can do to make commuting more bearable.
Lo and behold, COVID-19 hit and I lost my job. After spending the better part of a year unemployed, I was fortunate enough to be offered a flying job in another province. I like where I’m living now, and due to my personal situation I’m not particularly interested in relocating to where the new job is located, thus I’m now commuting back and forth. Is it an ideal situation? Perhaps not - but I feel tremendously fortunate to be flying and making a decent income once again, one that more than offsets the cost of commuting back and forth. After experiencing the struggle of trying to make ends meet on CERB/EI/CEWS, commuting certainly doesn’t seem so bad by comparison.
Would I have ever considered commuting before going through this experience? My answer would have been an emphatic “no” - but here we are. Would I recommend doing it for an entire career if given the choice, certainly not, but our personal circumstances may make it unavoidable, at least temporarily. If you can find a crash pad with a friend or two it certainly makes the time you spend there more enjoyable; I also purchased a second (used) vehicle to keep at work, which makes life much easier for getting around, purchasing groceries so you’re not always forced to go with Uber Eats, etc. There are certainly things like that that you can do to make commuting more bearable.
Re: How bad is commuting
It really depends on where you are commuting to/from. I have one of the the shortest commutes out there, YVR-YCD and it works fine for me. Quite often I’m home before my F/O’s that live in Abbotsford or other places farther out in the valley.
Re: How bad is commuting
There is 2 different types of commuting, for pairings and for the actual job based base where you are away for at least 2 weeks at a time. Commuting for pairings is pretty easy for working for companies like Jazz but the whole "crash pad" world to me is pretty sketchy. Also the Buffalo NY crash has shone a light on airline commuting. It seems that we bitch about FDT's but are willing to stay up for 24 hours or more getting to or from work.
My commuting experience is mostly 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (not really it's actually 16 on and 12 off because of the commute. I much preferred 3 on 3 off but TC screwed that one up -- haha, this was the only formula for getting enough time off to do stuff.
I know guys who have commuted for most of their careers but for me it became very tedious and burnout was high since the company wanted to get at least a month's flying out of you in the "on" period. The other issue is if you can get the company to pay for your commute, if not it's costing.
In this time of craziness, obviously one is going to accept any reasonable employment, be prepared for training bonds.
My commuting experience is mostly 2 weeks on 2 weeks off (not really it's actually 16 on and 12 off because of the commute. I much preferred 3 on 3 off but TC screwed that one up -- haha, this was the only formula for getting enough time off to do stuff.
I know guys who have commuted for most of their careers but for me it became very tedious and burnout was high since the company wanted to get at least a month's flying out of you in the "on" period. The other issue is if you can get the company to pay for your commute, if not it's costing.
In this time of craziness, obviously one is going to accept any reasonable employment, be prepared for training bonds.
Black air has no lift - extra fuel has no weight
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http://www.blackair.ca
Re: How bad is commuting
I would think there’s quite a few guys and gals doing yvr-ycd/yyj/maybe yqq commutes, is that a correct assumption?
Re: How bad is commuting
I know a number of pilots who live in YHZ and are based in YYZ or YUL. I think it is a “popular” commute, so if you are low on the priority list, that can be an issue. But there are parings available on lots of fleets that have YHZ layovers…. Some may even start with a DH to YHZ, which is great if it works in your favour!Launchpad1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:47 am How about YHZ to YYZ? I know it's obviously pretty bad at the moment but did anyone make this work in normal times?
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Re: How bad is commuting
Thanks for the info. I'm hoping that in the not to distant future the airline I work for opens a YHZ base. There's not much out here at the moment. It's one of the few down sides of living in Halifax in my opinion.I know a number of pilots who live in YHZ and are based in YYZ or YUL. I think it is a “popular” commute, so if you are low on the priority list, that can be an issue. But there are parings available on lots of fleets that have YHZ layovers…. Some may even start with a DH to YHZ, which is great if it works in your favour!