Competing Union

[Dionysus]

Another issue within itself when it comes to “voting the reps” is Just the pure lack of engagement. Nobody’s fault but our own. Sideline chat groups with no real information or lobbying to the “whole group”. It’s a joke. Then we get the reps we deserve. Far away base rep guys boasting about using all their sick days and not having to commute and now in status positions due to a chat group and low voter turnout. If the rumblings are true about the new mec chair… speechless.

[YC87DRVR]

One possible theory I’ve heard is the 26 on the steering committee know they’re becoming a large minority in the group, yet want to have the majority of the influence and “steering” then direction of the entire group.
With 4-2 vote that turned into a NO vote on the latest MOA, that benefited the majority of the steering committee members and returned them to normal pay while a large number was laid off. There was outrage among a large number of union brothers and sister they didn’t even have the chance to vote.
It’s not hard to imagine they see now as their opportunity to grab power, while the group/base with the greatest numbers has little to no say, as they are reduced/furloughed. It’s also probably safe to assume they know that large number of pilots that were bumped/furloughed with the failure of the last MOA will have long memories and use that knowledge when voting in the future and are trying to grab power to avoid that situation.
Just my 0.02c

[lostaviator]

They say that companies get the union they deserve. The same can be said about the employee group. Until this group learns the world isn’t run on telegram, we are (insert word that rhymes with ducked).

The funny thing is, these pilots are so blinded by their hatred of ALPA they don’t see the obvious solution right in front of them - Get involved in the system we have!

Their proposed union dues aren’t even that much of an improvement.

[WestJet Puke]

They say that companies get the union they deserve. The same can be said about the employee group. Until this group learns the world isn’t run on telegram, we are (insert word that rhymes with ducked).

The funny thing is, these pilots are so blinded by their hatred of ALPA they don’t see the obvious solution right in front of them - Get involved in the system we have!

Truest words ever on AvCanada.

[Dionysus]

So why the hatred? Ask that question first but honestly there has been no time to with the struggles of the LEC’s the constant turn over of committees, the turnover of the MEC, the recalls, the lack of information and the guys who love hearing themselves on the telegram chats stressed out! Why would anyone get involved? It’s too bad big alpa didn’t step in and fix this line it was rumoured. I can’t remember…was that rumour even true? See what I mean? So is Steve W the rumour for the MEC too? Man.

[Arnie Pye]

Isn't most of the steering committee made up of people that were effectively voted out when ALPA came along in the first place? They were fired once for failing to represent the pilots. What's going to be different this time around?

[countdown]

If SW is the new MEC I will no choice but to support the other guys. SW is toxic and the company will not work with him, his past proves it. If this is the choice of the LEC they are completely out to lunch. WJ pilots should expect another garbage arbitrated agreement.

[Airbrake]

My prediction is WestJet pilots will repeat the FedEx lost decade, but only do it better, and make it 15 years.

[lostaviator]

My prediction is WestJet pilots will repeat the FedEx lost decade, but only do it better, and make it 15 years.

You’re assuming the company lasts 15 years. Hope is quickly fading on this side of the keyboard…. Let’s fire all the staff because travel demand will never come back! I’ve heard more and more people are deciding to drive across the country because it’s quicker than 18 hours on hold.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

My prediction is WestJet pilots will repeat the FedEx lost decade, but only do it better, and make it 15 years.

You’re assuming the company lasts 15 years. Hope is quickly fading on this side of the keyboard…. Let’s fire all the staff because travel demand will never come back! I’ve heard more and more people are deciding to drive across the country because it’s quicker than 18 hours on hold.

You're a pessimistic one, eh?

[lostaviator]

My prediction is WestJet pilots will repeat the FedEx lost decade, but only do it better, and make it 15 years.

You’re assuming the company lasts 15 years. Hope is quickly fading on this side of the keyboard…. Let’s fire all the staff because travel demand will never come back! I’ve heard more and more people are deciding to drive across the country because it’s quicker than 18 hours on hold.

You're a pessimistic one, eh?

Normally, no. I actually have a very positive outlook on the short-medium term outlook for the industry and our profession. Long term not so much: Environmental regulations. Single pilot ops. Loosening of foreign carrier restrictions (it’s in all the main parties policy books).

I just think WJ is in for a rough few years. How long has every other 2nd largest carrier lasted in Canada?

We are privately owned. Let’s not kid ourselves. Investors (myself included) only care about the performance of the company while they own it. Labour unrest. Revolving doors on top management offices. Product/brand differentiation doesn’t exist anymore… what owners? There’s no one left!

I’d love for the company to last forever. I just don’t feel great about that being the case. I hope I’m wrong.

[Airbrake]

I certainly believe the next years could be rough.
This could assist in softening some of the hits though. Time will tell if the company or our own pilots are our worst enemy though.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2021 ... -serve-can

[FL410AV8R]

If SW is the new MEC I will no choice but to support the other guys. SW is toxic and the company will not work with him, his past proves it. If this is the choice of the LEC they are completely out to lunch. WJ pilots should expect another garbage arbitrated agreement.

I have read a lot of BS here on AvCanada but this really takes the biscuit. This slander and character assassination has been perpetuated by some from the old guard WJPA for over a decade now and frankly, it is disturbing that so many continue to regurgitate it.

The reality is that the individual you mention was actually the first pilot representative in our history to stand up and publicly disagree with and call BS on what was going on at the company, of course, the company didn't like dealing with him. The problem was at the time the Kool-Aid was still particularly strong within the pilot group and when support from the group was required we chickened out and sided with the company, that is not the case anymore. How has the "let's be friends" approach worked out for our pilots recently?

[fish4life]

Another issue within itself when it comes to “voting the reps” is Just the pure lack of engagement. Nobody’s fault but our own. Sideline chat groups with no real information or lobbying to the “whole group”. It’s a joke. Then we get the reps we deserve. Far away base rep guys boasting about using all their sick days and not having to commute and now in status positions due to a chat group and low voter turnout. If the rumblings are true about the new mec chair… speechless.

If sick days don’t get paid out you would be handing the company money by not using all of them, why wouldn’t you use all your sick time?

[digits_]

If sick days don’t get paid out you would be handing the company money by not using all of them, why wouldn’t you use all your sick time?

Sick days aren't money. Sick days are available for when you are sick. If everybody would use all their sick days, I'm pretty sure next time everyone would get less.

If you get, random number, 10 sick days, the expectation is probably that the average pilot will use 4 or 5. It's a social construct in which you can tap in if you need it. It's not vacation.

[Bede]

If sick days don’t get paid out you would be handing the company money by not using all of them, why wouldn’t you use all your sick time?

Because:
1) it’s unethical to report sick when you are not.
2) it undermines the trust based sick and fatigue policies.
3) it leads to management harassing genuinely sick people because they’re trying to weed out who’s sick and who’s not.
4) you can be terminated with cause for time sheet fraud.

[tailgunner]

Time to put on your big boy pants Bede.
How do you define “fit to fly”, as it states in the CARS?
You seemed concerned about facing company harassment. If someone asks you about your health and ability to work on a certain day, respond with “ I was not fit to fly”. There you go, problem solved. If they keep pressing, they are out of bounds, and could face severe penalties from TC and the Labour Board. They are not permitted to ask personal health questions. They are not permitted to pressure you to work, when you have self- assessed.
We, as pilots, need o grow a stiffer backbone. It is manifested in this irrational fear, at the WJ and AC level, of pilots that are afraid to make a stand and are afraid of their own shadow.
Fit to fly is an enormous blanket. It does not mean that you need to have the sniffles or the shits. It also encompasses ones mental and emotional states. I certainly do not want to fly with a comrade that is mentally not in the game because of outside emotional pressures. So, do not worry about your corporate sick day usage policies. They are not written for Pilots, but for every other employee. We are governed by the CARS.
Cheers

[digits_]

Time to put on your big boy pants Bede.
How do you define “fit to fly”, as it states in the CARS?
You seemed concerned about facing company harassment. If someone asks you about your health and ability to work on a certain day, respond with “ I was not fit to fly”. There you go, problem solved. If they keep pressing, they are out of bounds, and could face severe penalties from TC and the Labour Board. They are not permitted to ask personal health questions. They are not permitted to pressure you to work, when you have self- assessed.
We, as pilots, need o grow a stiffer backbone. It is manifested in this irrational fear, at the WJ and AC level, of pilots that are afraid to make a stand and are afraid of their own shadow.
Fit to fly is an enormous blanket. It does not mean that you need to have the sniffles or the shits. It also encompasses ones mental and emotional states. I certainly do not want to fly with a comrade that is mentally not in the game because of outside emotional pressures. So, do not worry about your corporate sick day usage policies. They are not written for Pilots, but for every other employee. We are governed by the CARS.
Cheers

How is that relevant for the sick day discussion. Are you just going to call in unfit to fly because you happen to have some sick days left?

[Bede]

Time to put on your big boy pants Bede.
How do you define “fit to fly”, as it states in the CARS?
You seemed concerned about facing company harassment. If someone asks you about your health and ability to work on a certain day, respond with “ I was not fit to fly”. There you go, problem solved. If they keep pressing, they are out of bounds, and could face severe penalties from TC and the Labour Board. They are not permitted to ask personal health questions. They are not permitted to pressure you to work, when you have self- assessed.
We, as pilots, need o grow a stiffer backbone. It is manifested in this irrational fear, at the WJ and AC level, of pilots that are afraid to make a stand and are afraid of their own shadow.
Fit to fly is an enormous blanket. It does not mean that you need to have the sniffles or the shits. It also encompasses ones mental and emotional states. I certainly do not want to fly with a comrade that is mentally not in the game because of outside emotional pressures. So, do not worry about your corporate sick day usage policies. They are not written for Pilots, but for every other employee. We are governed by the CARS.
Cheers

I define fit to fly the same way you do. The difference is that the previous poster advocated using all his sick days which implied that he was willing to call in "sick" when not physically or emotionally not fit to fly. I call in sick because I'm not fit to fly, not because I'm concerned about the company possibly saving money because I didn't use all my sick days.

[tailgunner]

If you deem yourself as not fit to fly, then indeed book off.
Some years there may be days left , some years not. The thought process, and self assessment should not consider any sick day use company policy. I feel that too often the fear of breaking company policy holds too much sway.
Cheers