WestJet Dedicated Freighters

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Mach1
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by Mach1 »

I am always amazed when I work with a pilot who is upset about working weekends, holidays, or nights. Did they not understand the career they chose? There are many, many wonderful jobs in the world that work from 8-6 weekdays only.
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digits_
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by digits_ »

Mach1 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:27 am I am always amazed when I work with a pilot who is upset about working weekends, holidays, or nights. Did they not understand the career they chose? There are many, many wonderful jobs in the world that work from 8-6 weekdays only.
If you are signing up for a job flying pax, somewhat during daylight hours-ish, and that suddenly changed to a full night freight schedule for the next few years (my original question/premise), I'm sure quite a few pilots would be unhappy with that.

But hey, good for you if you don't mind, if it scares other people off, it will only be good for your seniority number!
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47north
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by 47north »

Mach1 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:27 am I am always amazed when I work with a pilot who is upset about working weekends, holidays, or nights. Did they not understand the career they chose? There are many, many wonderful jobs in the world that work from 8-6 weekdays only.
If you're not chasing airplanes, it is not that difficult to find a flying job that has a more 'regular' schedule if that's what you like. I haven't worked a holiday or flown through the night in 25 years. I only work weekends if I desire as well.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:38 am
Mach1 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:27 am I am always amazed when I work with a pilot who is upset about working weekends, holidays, or nights. Did they not understand the career they chose? There are many, many wonderful jobs in the world that work from 8-6 weekdays only.
If you are signing up for a job flying pax, somewhat during daylight hours-ish, and that suddenly changed to a full night freight schedule for the next few years (my original question/premise), I'm sure quite a few pilots would be unhappy with that.

But hey, good for you if you don't mind, if it scares other people off, it will only be good for your seniority number!
If you flew for WestJet you'd remember that scheduling is bid on using a satisfaction index. If you don't want to fly night cargo, you'll likely not get night cargo. There are enough people who would bid for it.
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Mach1
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by Mach1 »

47north wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:41 am [If you're not chasing airplanes, it is not that difficult to find a flying job that has a more 'regular' schedule if that's what you like. I haven't worked a holiday or flown through the night in 25 years. I only work weekends if I desire as well.
Well done.

I'm just saying, it's a 24/7 job. But like the Rolling Stones said; You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, well, you just might find, You get what you need.
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ALPApolicy
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by ALPApolicy »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:17 am
WestJet Puke wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:18 am ....plus there are folks among us who actually enjoy the night flying....
I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.
You'll outgrow giving a poop.
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AnonPilot
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by AnonPilot »

ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:17 am
WestJet Puke wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:18 am ....plus there are folks among us who actually enjoy the night flying....
I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.
You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

AnonPilot wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:17 am

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.
You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
The flight attendant in back asked me to let her know when we arrived...
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flyingcanuck
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by flyingcanuck »

AnonPilot wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:17 am

I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.
You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
:lol:
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ALPApolicy
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by ALPApolicy »

AnonPilot wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:17 am I mean, not having obnoxious passengers critique your landing is also a plus.
You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:16 pm
AnonPilot wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm

You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)
As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.
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tbaylx
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by tbaylx »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:16 pm
AnonPilot wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:40 am
ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 pm

You'll outgrow giving a poop.
Sometimes I slam them on to let everyone knows who’s in control (or not) of the airplane.
I understand that sentiment.

After years of trying to milk a smooth landing out of the approach, and accepting all the praise forthcoming, I reached the phase a couple of years ago where I just don't want to be the guy running off the end or off the side of a taxiway. I like to put the plane down reasonably close to where I plan to put it down. I have issues with former Q400 drivers (sorry to generalize) who are used to carrying power on until touch down, or carry it until just prior and then slap the thrust levers back. That residual thrust floats a 37 good way further than necessary.

(That said, I landed in my parachute last week in a tree because I thought I was all that and a bag of chips, so maybe disregard anything I have to say...)
That's a common turboprop transition issue. If your Q pilots are getting through sim and line indoc and still doing that then your training department has an issue.
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airway
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by airway »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:32 pm As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.
For Flap 35 true.

If you are at Flap 15 and flaring at or below Vref, with intentions of touching down at or near your aiming point, quite often you do need a touch of power to prevent a "very firm" landing.

I don't know what Encore does, but Jazz has a procedure where you can add 10 Knots to the Flap 15 Vref on a normal landing, runway length permitting. If you do this you rarely need to add power in the flare. This also helps at busier airports to fit in with the jets.






.
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Tolip
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by Tolip »

airway wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:42 am
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:32 pm As a former Q pilot, I am here to remind other Q pilots that you don't need to add power in the flare.
For Flap 35 true.

If you are at Flap 15 and flaring at or below Vref, with intentions of touching down at or near your aiming point, quite often you do need a touch of power to prevent a "very firm" landing.

I don't know what Encore does, but Jazz has a procedure where you can add 10 Knots to the Flap 15 Vref on a normal landing, runway length permitting. If you do this you rarely need to add power in the flare. This also helps at busier airports to fit in with the jets
.
it's not really about "can" in my mind. "Can" you land a Q at vref without adding power. Yes you can, but you defs cant walk it back to idle b4 touchdown, not if you are at or close to vref. I find it is more of a mitigating risk issue, if your trying to touch down without the additional power that close to ref, your margin of error is very small, if you flair abit too high (smash), loose a gust (smash), get hit with minor windshere (smash). Or worse case scenario tail strike. Either that or you wind up adding the power later on in your flair to compensate for the error. Which, now you are right where you started. I've noticed that if you are 5-10 kts above vref, and you add about 5 % power once in flair attitude then you consistently land with about a 4 degree nose up attitude, which I think is a safe but effective use of the limited pitch authority we have in the Q. The problem comes in when you are way over ref or add way too much power and are landing with like 1 degree pitch, that's excessive and you notice it with you landing distance. I make it my goal every landing to touch down and have the aircraft stable below 60 kts, within 4000 ft runway.
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cloak
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by cloak »

In the short term, this is a good way to maximize the size of the fleet and in the long term, obviously this is good for the corporation.
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by bobcaygeon »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:14 pm
Longtimer wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:47 pm
Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters
Post by digits_ » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:06 am

Does that mean that recalled junior pilots will have the joy of flying night freight for the next 10 years?
Beats the S..it out of not working. Lots of pilots enjoy the steady wages earned from Large Cargo Air operators.
Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.
How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't
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digits_
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by digits_ »

bobcaygeon wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:15 am
digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:14 pm
Longtimer wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:47 pm

Beats the S..it out of not working. Lots of pilots enjoy the steady wages earned from Large Cargo Air operators.
Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.
How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't
That's what my question was: if there would be dedicated crews or not. If junior crews would be stuck on freight only for the next few years. So no, nothing factual, just asking in the hope someone would have known the answer.
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by Blue42 »

digits_ wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:01 am
bobcaygeon wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:15 am
digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:14 pm

Does it?

It's probably safe to assume that if the junior westjet pilots wanted to fly night cargo, they would have gone to a night cargo operator.

I haven't flown night cargo, but I did night medevac, and I can honestly say I would take a non aviation job over going back to the night flying any day.
How is this any different than doing the red-eyes from YVR/YYC to YYZ/YHZ, etc? Did you read anything factual that said its dedicated crews ? I haven't
That's what my question was: if there would be dedicated crews or not. If junior crews would be stuck on freight only for the next few years. So no, nothing factual, just asking in the hope someone would have known the answer.
There’s no junior/senior when it comes to bidding schedules….
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

Blue42 wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:36 pm There’s no junior/senior when it comes to bidding schedules….
"Spread the shit around" is not an industry standard, so I'm not surprised that some aren't aware of it.
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WestJet Puke
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Re: WestJet Dedicated Freighters

Post by WestJet Puke »

No need to disparage potential WJ cargo night flying. There are a some guys in our midst who enjoy the night flying, who will happily bid the cargo stuff. For some folks, flying in the o'dark hours, the lower-keyness of it (want to say showtime was only 45 minutes prior, on the cargo side), no airport terminals and security, plus no pax and fa drama sounds awfully good.
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