737 in the water off Hawaii

[rookiepilot]

Crew rescued. Cargo jet. Engine failure. Older 737.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerosp ... 021-07-02/

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... a#2842c404

[JasonE]

Confident someone already knows the cause.

Maybe we need a poll?

It will be interesting to find out why it went down. Good to hear crew was rescued.

[montado]

Confident someone already knows the cause.

Maybe we need a poll?

It will be interesting to find out why it went down. Good to hear crew was rescued.

I looked at the flight radar and I can confirm it was a malfunction that brought this plane down. Along with some crm as a contributing factor. Recommendations in my report will include if you choose to ditch it is preferable to do so in warm water such as this incident.

[photofly]

Not enough checklists.

[172_Captain]

Confident someone already knows the cause.

Maybe we need a poll?

It will be interesting to find out why it went down. Good to hear crew was rescued.

I heard the live ATC audio about an hour ago. They lost the number one engine. Were returning to land while completing the QRH. A few minutes before they went in the were reporting that the number 2 engine was now running hot, and they wanted the Coast Guard notified and vectors to the nearest airport which was 3 miles away. That was the last call.

https://archive.liveatc.net/phnl/PHNL1- ... -1130Z.mp3

Starts at 4:35

They state they lost AN engine at 5:35

Ready to return for landing at 9:01

11:35 crew confirms it’s the number 1 engine that’s gone, 11:44 crew says they will lose the other engine, it’s running really hot

[PostmasterGeneral]

Assuming the failure mode for both engines is the same, what would cause an engine to run hot? Incorrect fuel?

Not familiar with the -200, but is there some sort of "firewall power" available on your good engine for a limited time in the event you need it? I remember on King Airs and stuff I flew without FADEC, if I needed the power to avoid a crash, I wasn't overly concerned with torque or ITT limitations.

[telex]

JT8D allows "Maximum Takeoff EGT (5 minutes)" and "Maximum Continuous EGT".

EGT varies between the engine versions.

Screen Shot 2021-07-02 at 16.38.16.png (42.95 KiB) Viewed 5534 times

Screen Shot 2021-07-02 at 16.32.06.png (99.89 KiB) Viewed 5534 times

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Not enough checklists.

Wrong. It was their instructor's fault.

[montado]

On Jul 3rd 2021 Coast Guard men involved in the rescue reported the debris field of the aircraft was about 1.25nm long. They discovered both pilots, one (58) was standing at the tail of the aircraft waving at the helicopter, the other clinged to a cargo net of cargo swimming around the aircraft. When the aircraft sank, the one pilot at the tail momentarily disappeared, they got sight of him again while he was struggeling to stay afloat and lifted him into the helicopter at 02:58L. The pilot was exhausted and unable to talk, but was conscious. The other pilot (50) was rescued by a boat at 02:51L, the pilot had head injuries and needed to be cleaned from aircraft fuel before he walked off the boat on his own and was received by medical staff who took him to the hospital.

Incredible timing with the rescue. Sounds like arriving 15 minutes later and it could have been recovering the remains.

[Old fella]

Not enough checklists.

Wrong. It was their instructor's fault.

With the killer checklist.

[Mick G]

I wonder if its possible that avgas was mistakenly put on during refueling. I'd be curious to hear thoughts from others. Is it even possible? I recall reading somethingvavout this in the past with engine temp before shutdown, but it might have been vise versa jet a, in a piston engine ?

[photofly]

I wonder if its possible that avgas was mistakenly put on during refueling. I'd be curious to hear thoughts from others. Is it even possible? I recall reading somethingvavout this in the past with engine temp before shutdown, but it might have been vise versa jet a, in a piston engine ?

According to NASA:

The real show-stopper is the lead. If you got the lead out, there's no reason you couldn't use avgas in turbine engines today. The current status, then, is that turbine engines can use avgas on an emergency basis. They are certified to do so, in fact, for between 6 and 150 hours per TBO.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/198 ... 014186.pdf

[PilotDAR]

I would opine that it is very unlikely that a refueling person who is assigned to fuel a 737 has access to Avgas (or enough Avgas) to misfuel a 737 with it. I doubt that Avgas can be pressure fueled into an airplane at all, and if you're overwing fueling a 737, something is already odd, so people would be paying more attention.

And, as Photofly has said, [at least some] jet engines can tolerate Avgas for periods exceeding the length of this flight.

[stef]

Does 737-200 require anti-ice additive?

[telex]

No.

[stef]

No.

Hmm. Probably rules out def then.

Must be difficult for them to investigate fuel contamination under the circumstances.

[SAR_YQQ]

The most cringe worthy part of the Live ATC radio exchange was the NFP total lack of communication skills.

[TeePeeCreeper]

The most cringe worthy part of the Live ATC radio exchange was the NFP total lack of communication skills.

Did I read your comment right? If so, you’ve got to be kidding me! Sounded like they had far more pressing issues to deal with than giving ATC POB/FOB numbers…

[Donald]

The most cringe worthy part of the Live ATC radio exchange was the NFP total lack of communication skills.

Can you expand?

[SpyPilot]

Yes, please do expand on your idiotic comment.

[co-joe]

The most cringe worthy part of the Live ATC radio exchange was the NFP total lack of communication skills.

Cringeworthy might not be the correct term, but just like the 777 with the engine cowl separation recently, there is a serious lack of communication from the flight crew to ATC. There's a real difference in the response required for 2 souls on board and 100, and you know they're going to ask, it would have been faster to say 2 souls and X tonnes of fuel, than to say what he said. But hey I wasn't there and I don't know the 732 at all.

[geodoc]

Wreckage photos released:

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2021/07/1 ... -off-oahu/






.

[boeingboy]

Wow - Looks pretty intact. Basically it's in 2 pieces snapped right at the leading edge of the wing. The cockpit section looks remarkably good with only the very lower part of the lower fuse damaged, it also looks like the co-pilots #2 window was open .I'm guessing that's how both crew got out (through their respective #2 windows). Very well done for a night ditching.

[cncpc]

Wow - Looks pretty intact. Basically it's in 2 pieces snapped right at the leading edge of the wing. The cockpit section looks remarkably good with only the very lower part of the lower fuse damaged, it also looks like the co-pilots #2 window was open .I'm guessing that's how both crew got out (through their respective #2 windows). Very well done for a night ditching.

+1 on the very well done.

Is there a shear mechanism in those -200 engine pylons?

[Mick G]

Is there a shear mechanism in those -200 engine pylons?

Yes