How difficult is it to become an RCAF pilot?

[Littlefish]

What is the competitiveness like for selection into the program? Once you've been accepted into the program, what are the chances of successful completion of the training?

Cheers, LF

[Posthumane]

I suggest you peruse the army.ca forums, specifically the recruiting section and the airforce general forum. There are some threads there that may be of interest to you, such as: https://army.ca/forums/threads/you-want ... nt.130657/

The number of candidates and the intake varies from year to year, but as a general educated guess I've seen 1 in 800 as a rough estimate for how many people make it to get their wings out of all the applicants. Probably more than half of the applicants are screened right at the application stage due to insufficient education, etc. A significant percentage fail the medical, and close to half fail the aircrew selection test. Some people also get disqualified due to their body size/proportions. If you pass all that, then you have to pass each course (basic officer training, phases 1, 2, and 3 flight training). The failure rates on each of those is not terribly high (maybe 10-15% for each course).

[airway]

I suggest you peruse the army.ca forums, specifically the recruiting section and the airforce general forum. There are some threads there that may be of interest to you, such as: https://army.ca/forums/threads/you-want ... nt.130657/

The number of candidates and the intake varies from year to year, but as a general educated guess I've seen 1 in 800 as a rough estimate for how many people make it to get their wings out of all the applicants. Probably more than half of the applicants are screened right at the application stage due to insufficient education, etc. A significant percentage fail the medical, and close to half fail the aircrew selection test. Some people also get disqualified due to their body size/proportions. If you pass all that, then you have to pass each course (basic officer training, phases 1, 2, and 3 flight training). The failure rates on each of those is not terribly high (maybe 10-15% for each course).

What body size are they looking for? Does it matter if you are flying the C130?

[Littlefish]

I think the issue with body size wouldn't be for the C130, or any of the transport aircraft (unless you are literally Andre the giant). It would be more for the ejection seat lead in aircraft like the Harvard.

[Littlefish]

I suggest you peruse the army.ca forums, specifically the recruiting section and the airforce general forum. There are some threads there that may be of interest to you, such as: https://army.ca/forums/threads/you-want ... nt.130657/

The number of candidates and the intake varies from year to year, but as a general educated guess I've seen 1 in 800 as a rough estimate for how many people make it to get their wings out of all the applicants. Probably more than half of the applicants are screened right at the application stage due to insufficient education, etc. A significant percentage fail the medical, and close to half fail the aircrew selection test. Some people also get disqualified due to their body size/proportions. If you pass all that, then you have to pass each course (basic officer training, phases 1, 2, and 3 flight training). The failure rates on each of those is not terribly high (maybe 10-15% for each course).

1/800? Holy cow! I guess they want the best. 10-15% failure rate on the actual courses isn't so bad though, I guess the aircrew selection does a good job of weeding out the people who are not suited for the job.

[photofly]

15% failure rate on each of four consecutive courses means about half fail overall.

[Littlefish]

15% failure rate on each of four consecutive courses means about half fail overall.

One step at a time, I suppose. First step will be to get into the job to begin with!

[Big Pistons Forever]

The 1 in 800 number implies you have to be superman to get your RCAF wings. That 800 number is basically anyone who has inquired about joining the RCAF. I would suggest the pilot classification attracts a disproportionate number of applications from poseurs compared to other CAF trades.

The RCAF wants to avoid spending expensive airplane training dollars on those people who are not going to be successful in flight training, therefore they want to wash out weak applicants at the aptitude test and medical stages. In addition the requirement for post secondary education eliminates many otherwise suitable candidates. There is also the generalized CAF recruiting problem with too many applicants who are obese and/or physically unfit.

I would suggest that anyone who is genuinely interested do their homework to make sure they actually understand what life in the CAF is like and prepare themselves for the application process. Anyone with post secondary education, is reasonably fit, has no significant medical issues and has a passion for aviation has a pretty decent chance to get their wings.

[Posthumane]

BPF, you are correct, the 1 in 800 number is out of all the people who put "pilot" on their application. I didn't intend for it to be misleading, and there are many applicants who are not qualified but apply anyway just to see. One person I met had wanted to become a doctor and went to apply as a medical officer, but the recruiter convinced her that she should apply as a pilot as MO spots are very hard to come by.

A person who is young, fit, and enthusiastic has better chances than that, but it's still a somewhat competitive field for entry. At the enrollment stage a number of people get taken out by previously unknown medical issues, and people who are already pilots do fail the aircrew selection test sometimes (although that one you can try again after waiting a year). After you get in your chance of passing is largely controlled by your attitude and willingness to put in effort, so luckily you have a lot of control over that. Occasionally experienced CPL/ATPL holders do fail RCAF flight training due to an unwillingness to change their habits (though it's uncommon).

The body size issue is not so easy to describe as it's based on specific measurements of body parts. Some people are unable to fly ejection seat aircraft due to having too long of a femur. This previously would disqualify you for phase 2 training when only the Harvard was available, but for some people there is now a work around (which limits what you can fly afterwards). One person I know had to be taken off of c130 training and moved to another airframe due to being too short (you'd think they could solve that issue with a phone book, but apparently not).

[tsgarp]

The ejection seats are the main thing that determines if your body size/measurements (referred to as anthropometrics) disqualify you. There is a weight range (too light and the ejection forces with crush your spine, too heavy and you won’t get launched clear), a height range and a thigh length range (too long and you’ll leave your knee caps if you eject).

Attrition tends to be about 30% on Primary Flying Training, 5-10% on Basic Flying Training and virtually zero on advanced Jet and Multi Engine training. Helo training has about a 10-15% Attrition.

If you want in, start working on showing your leadership potential; take on positions of responsibility at work, as a volunteer or in sports teams. Get good grades (they figure into you merit score at the recruiting centre). If possible join the reserves in some other trade (shows you are committed to the CAF). Those factors will get you past the initial guardians at the recruiting centre and then it just comes down to if you can fly.

[Posthumane]

I would actually advise against joining the reserves in another trade if the goal is to be a pilot. That may have been a good route in the past, but in recent years it often takes longer to do a component transfer than it does to get it off the street.

[Littlefish]

Is it true what they say of "Aircrew selection is the hardest part of becoming a pilot?". I just did it a little while ago and it was really stressful.

[TG]

The 1 in 800 number implies you have to be superman to get your RCAF wings. That 800 number is basically anyone who has inquired about joining the RCAF. I would suggest the pilot classification attracts a disproportionate number of applications from poseurs compared to other CAF trades.

Back in the late 80's (After the movie Top Gun duh!) I've been told by a recruiter that it was roughly 1 pilot selected for every 15 000 candidates! I suspect he was including all applications for all military branches and excluding pilots selected in Transports and Helicopters category.

I remember doing my very first round of selection, a general one not specific to a branch yet. Basically to weed out people who didn't know how to read and write. We were 4 to make it out of a groupe of 20 something!
Made me realize the amount of people with bare bone minimum education if no education at all there is in society.


In a country like France their numbers at the time were 1 Jet fighter pilot selected for every 40 000 to 50 000 candidates! (Same background story I suspect)

[Ash Ketchum]

I got disqualified due to my body proportions. I am pretty tall (6'4") but also have a long torso compared to my legs and was red on all three phase 3 aircraft as well as the phase 1 aircraft so they offered me an ATC job instead. I decided to stick with commercial aviation.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I find it interesting that so many young people still consider a career in the Canadian armed forces. If our military was better funded, perhaps the opportunities would be better. Most military pilots eventually move to civilian companies. It's very rare the opposite occurs. (Among other factors) that tells you that the lifestyle is much better in the civilian world, especially for the family members.

Now the US would be a lot more attractive, with way more variety and opportunities, but after all... military is military. You're limited in what you can do, when you can do it & where you can do it. Great for those who accept it. For me, it has zero appeal.

[Littlefish]

I find it interesting that so many young people still consider a career in the Canadian armed forces. If our military was better funded, perhaps the opportunities would be better. Most military pilots eventually move to civilian companies. It's very rare the opposite occurs. (Among other factors) that tells you that the lifestyle is much better in the civilian world, especially for the family members.

Now the US would be a lot more attractive, with way more variety and opportunities, but after all... military is military. You're limited in what you can do, when you can do it & where you can do it. Great for those who accept it. For me, it has zero appeal.

I wish I could be an American military pilot, but unfortunately that's not the case. They have so much better equipment than us, and are always on the bleeding edge of development. That being said, military aviation seems a lot more dynamic that civvy aviation, and seems to be a good stepping stone to get into the truly interesting civilian jobs. Lifestyle in civvy aviation seems to be pretty rough on the family too, especially at the beginning of one's career. Are there any examples of civvy aviation jobs from the beginning up that are easy on the family? My wife earns more than I ever would in the military, so that might be compelling as an alternative.

[DanWEC]

I know this has been brought up before, but I'm curious to know, what are a few of the oldest guys you've heard of successfully getting their wings?

[tsgarp]

Late 30s to early 40s seems to be the upper edge of the age range for New Wing Grads.

[DanWEC]

Surprised to hear 40's. Is there a particular segment that's the most limiting? I'd assume the physical/medical?

[Littlefish]

My guess would be that with the 15 or so year commitment (5 years of training, 10 year service post wings) would exclude pretty much everyone from joining as a pilot after 45.