EnerJet 2.0 = Lynx

[Airbrake]

https://flylynx.ca/

[Liftdump]

Here is a suggestion. Hire people who know how to pick up th phone. Unlike that shit show you use to work at.

[garfield]

Looks like some competition for Flair

[scabbydoo]

I love how they keep referring to it as "Boeing's newest 737". I guess "MAX" doesn't have the same marketing appeal these days.

[Airbrake]

CBC Calgary just said they have commitments for 46 tails in 7 years.

[YYJ_Jeff]

Is it just me... or when you look at their paint scheme it reminds you of the paint scheme for the US Coast Guard?

[palebird]

Wrong place wrong time. Enerjet 1 was a screaming success wasn't it? Smoke and mirrors. No matter how hard you try you cannot do another Westjet launch. That just happened to be the right place right time.

[Old fella]

CBC Calgary just said they have commitments for 46 tails in 7 years.

Ah here we go. Reminiscent of that CanadaJetlines ongoing 5-6 yr saga that had similar glossy web site with pictures , announcements on aircraft acquisition from A320 to B737, a revolving door of Executives seeking other peoples money and partnerships with some obscure entities. Finally it was given a quick burial with the many kg’s of horseshit on top of it. If I remember correctly there were six or seven pages of various commentary on this site - entertaining though.

[atpilot]

Just something new for all the Flair haters to revel in. If Flair does go under it’ll be of their own doing, not because there’s another low cost start up. If Flair continues on its current path, it will eventually fail.

[Latitude]

Another crappy airline for Canada.... Swoop, Flair and now Lynx. Wonderful

[twa22]

CBC Calgary just said they have commitments for 46 tails in 7 years.

Ah here we go. Reminiscent of that CanadaJetlines ongoing 5-6 yr saga that had similar glossy web site with pictures , announcements on aircraft acquisition from A320 to B737, a revolving door of Executives seeking other peoples money and partnerships with some obscure entities. Finally it was given a quick burial with the many kg’s of horseshit on top of it. If I remember correctly there were six or seven pages of various commentary on this site - entertaining though.

Apparently they're still kicking

https://www.jetlines.ca/

And just signed some deal with Lufthansa Technik

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-j ... 00464.html

[Cavalier44]

The aviation market is becoming exceptionally saturated in this country. Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter (order for 30 Embraer E195-E2s with purchase rights for 50 more)
4. Flair (12 737s, with a stated goal to grow to 50 within 5 years)
5. Sunwing (primarily sun destinations, probably less exposed to competition, but with Flair adding Mexico + Caribbean flying, still has to be somewhat concerned about new market entrants)
6. Transat (same as above)
7. Lynx Air (plans to add 46 737s over the next seven years)

I strongly suspect that there is not nearly enough passenger demand in this country to sustain this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations. Air Canada should be relatively insulated from this given their market share and massive route network and will be able to use Rouge selectively to compete on low-yield routes. Likewise, WestJet will use Swoop as a vehicle to fend off the new entrants to the market although how much success they will have in doing so under new ownership remains to be seen.

Sunwing uses a vertically integrated model to sell vacation packages and is probably less concerned with making any money on the flights, as the profit comes from the vacation package in its entirely (predominantly hotels and excursions). I don't see Sunwing actively trying to compete with Flair or Swoop in the sun destinations market as the flights themselves are not the revenue generator for the company as a whole. However, they will have to price their packages in such a way to remain attractive to people who would be willing to take a ULCC-priced flight to Mexico and book an Airbnb there rather than going the all-inclusive route, for example.

My big question marks are Porter, Flair, this new Lynx Air, and to a lesser extent, Transat (shaky financial situation going forward but with the Quebec government likely willing to subsidize the airline to keep it in operation indefinitely). Obviously, this goes without saying, but a disclaimer nonetheless - I don't wish for any airline in this country to fail or for any pilot to be out of a job. But with that being said, I think it's apparent that the ULCC market space in Canada is too small to sustain all these new entrants simultaneously. I strongly suspect that we are due for some consolidation in some form within the next 2-3 years as the aviation market rebounds, what remains to be seen is how exactly that will take place and which airlines will be affected.

[Latitude]

The aviation market is becoming exceptionally saturated in this country. Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter (order for 30 Embraer E195-E2s with purchase rights for 50 more)
4. Flair (12 737s, with a stated goal to grow to 50 within 5 years)
5. Sunwing (primarily sun destinations, probably less exposed to competition, but with Flair adding Mexico + Caribbean flying, still has to be somewhat concerned about new market entrants)
6. Transat (same as above)
7. Lynx Air (plans to add 46 737s over the next seven years)

I strongly suspect that there is not nearly enough passenger demand in this country to sustain this many airlines in the long term. I predict we will see a bloodbath on fares in the short to medium-term as Swoop / Porter / Flair / Lynx all scramble to undercut one another flying the same low-yield passengers to the same destinations. Air Canada should be relatively insulated from this given their market share and massive route network and will be able to use Rouge selectively to compete on low-yield routes. Likewise, WestJet will use Swoop as a vehicle to fend off the new entrants to the market although how much success they will have in doing so under new ownership remains to be seen.

Sunwing uses a vertically integrated model to sell vacation packages and is probably less concerned with making any money on the flights, as the profit comes from the vacation package in its entirely (predominantly hotels and excursions). I don't see Sunwing actively trying to compete with Flair or Swoop in the sun destinations market as the flights themselves are not the revenue generator for the company as a whole. However, they will have to price their packages in such a way to remain attractive to people who would be willing to take a ULCC-priced flight to Mexico and book an Airbnb there rather than going the all-inclusive route, for example.

My big question marks are Porter, Flair, this new Lynx Air, and to a lesser extent, Transat (shaky financial situation going forward but with the Quebec government likely willing to subsidize the airline to keep it in operation indefinitely). Obviously, this goes without saying, but a disclaimer nonetheless - I don't wish for any airline in this country to fail or for any pilot to be out of a job. But with that being said, I think it's apparent that the ULCC market space in Canada is too small to sustain all these new entrants simultaneously. I strongly suspect that we are due for some consolidation in some form within the next 2-3 years as the aviation market rebounds, what remains to be seen is how exactly that will take place and which airlines will be affected.

Transat isn't the same as Sunwing, Flair, Swoop or Lynx. They have a BIG market to European destinations. None of the others have that or have the capacity to do it. Maybe LONG term if they dont fail before that but we all know that European destinations is in another league. Transat also is kind of vertically integrated.

I'd be concerned if I was AC or WS first since all those ULCC will be flying a lot domestic and US.

[Cavalier44]

Transat isn't the same as Sunwing, Flair, Swoop or Lynx. They have a BIG market to European destinations. None of the others have that or have the capacity to do it. Maybe LONG term if they dont fail before that but we all know that European destinations is in another league. Transat also is kind of vertically integrated.

Transat still has to compete with AC and now increasingly WS in the transatlantic market, a market that has been suppressed since COVID-19 and is only beginning to rebound. I expect that their biggest market this winter, by far, will be sun destinations. I consider it in the same league as Sunwing in that market, and Rouge and WestJet as well. Flair/Lynx are not yet established in that market and can be discounted for now. Also, if I remember correctly, it was reported that Transat was getting out of the hotel business entirely, which means it will be purely operating as an airline (no vertical integration).

With all of that being said, Transat's financial situation has been shaky at best, however, I do not expect them to close their doors. Quebec's taxpayers (myself included) will likely end up paying for another bailout package at some point if the airline isn't able to rebound financially. This province has a history of subsidizing money-losing enterprises that have been deemed too big to fail by the powers that be, see Bombardier for another example.

[Latitude]

Transat isn't the same as Sunwing, Flair, Swoop or Lynx. They have a BIG market to European destinations. None of the others have that or have the capacity to do it. Maybe LONG term if they dont fail before that but we all know that European destinations is in another league. Transat also is kind of vertically integrated.

Transat still has to compete with AC and now increasingly WS in the transatlantic market, a market that has been suppressed since COVID-19 and is only beginning to rebound. I expect that their biggest market this winter, by far, will be sun destinations. I consider it in the same league as Sunwing in that market, and Rouge and WestJet as well. Flair/Lynx are not yet established in that market and can be discounted for now. Also, if I remember correctly, it was reported that Transat was getting out of the hotel business entirely, which means it will be purely operating as an airline (no vertical integration).

With all of that being said, Transat's financial situation has been shaky at best, however, I do not expect them to close their doors. Quebec's taxpayers (myself included) will likely end up paying for another bailout package at some point if the airline isn't able to rebound financially. This province has a history of subsidizing money-losing enterprises that have been deemed too big to fail by the powers that be, see Bombardier for another example.

Transat has been competing with AC for decades and has been for a long time the biggest competitor to AC on transatlantic routes. This isnt new.Until COVID they had more market shares between Canada to Europe than any European carriers combined. Westjet has been trying for years and look at their routes to Europe just before COVID and now. Again, nothing new. Yes, this winter, sun destinations will be their biggest revenu stream, but that's every year. They earn more with sun destinations during winter and more on European destinations during summer.

Going out of the hotel business as in they won't be building hotels, but they keep Transat holidays, so no they do not operate purely as an airline. They are one of the biggest tour operator in the world. You're mixing things up. Transat AT is a vertically integrated tour operator and owns an airline which is Air Transat. They are simply not going forward with building hotels.

And please dont compare Bombardier to Transat AT which are two different leagues. Transat was never bailed out in 35 years unlike some other airlines and Bombardier of course, which has been a total disaster.

Again, the competition from ULCC such as Flair and Lynx will mostly be on the domestic market and eventually expand to the US. Who's covering that mostly ? AC and Westjet. That's the first thing they should worry about. This, with the decrease in business travel.

Flair expanding to sun destinations doesn't mean much for now, if they dont offer complete packages (flights + hotel at least). Who buys a plane ticket alone to Cuba or Dominican Republic for example ? Friends or family visiting locals, that's about it.

[Cavalier44]

Transat has been competing with AC for decades and has been for a long time the biggest competitor to AC on transatlantic routes. This isnt new.Until COVID they had more market shares between Canada to Europe than any European carriers combined. Westjet has been trying for years and look at their routes to Europe just before COVID and now. Again, nothing new. Yes, this winter, sun destinations will be their biggest revenu stream, but that's every year. They earn more with sun destinations during winter and more on European destinations during summer.

Competing in multiple markets does not necessarily constitute an advantage if you aren't actively earning a profit in those markets. Unfortunately, it may mean that you simply lose money in multiple areas simultaneously. There are going to be a lot of airlines competing for market share in the post-COVID rebound, it's important to look at which airlines will be well-capitalized enough to compensate for a drop in fares. Despite transatlantic travel business demand being reduced, Air Canada still has that market cornered. It can effectively use J-class yields to subsidize lower Y-class fares and compete in the same market space as low-cost transatlantic carriers.

Going out of the hotel business as in they won't be building hotels, but they keep Transat holidays, so no they do not operate purely as an airline. They are one of the biggest tour operator in the world. You're mixing things up. Transat AT is a vertically integrated tour operator and owns an airline which is Air Transat. They are simply not going forward with building hotels.

The sources I've read state that Transat AT is not only stopping building hotels but exiting the hotel business entirely. Being a vertically integrated tour operator is one thing, but if you're selling vacation packages at someone else's real estate, it leaves you at a competitive disadvantage.

And please dont compare Bombardier to Transat AT which are two different leagues. Transat was never bailed out in 35 years unlike some other airlines and Bombardier of course, which has been a total disaster.

Transat took $700 million in LEEFF loans from the federal government earlier this year. This is not to say that other airlines didn't do the same, but I would characterize that as a bailout. If they didn't receive that financing, would they still continue to be operating? I'm not saying that Transat is presently like Bombardier, what I'm saying is that it has the potential to become a Bombardier-like situation because the Quebec government has shown that it is willing to invest taxpayer dollars to keep certain companies in business regardless of whether they actually turn a profit. If we come to a point where Transat is likely to fail, I'll bet my bottom dollar that the provincial government steps in with a bailout package to prevent that from happening.

Again, the competition from ULCC such as Flair and Lynx will mostly be on the domestic market and eventually expand to the US. Who's covering that mostly ? AC and Westjet. That's the first thing they should worry about. This, with the decrease in business travel.

I don't disagree with you here. This is the entire raison d'être of both Rouge and Swoop. I expect they will be deployed heavily on those routes that warrant it in order to compete with these ULCC entrants.

Flair expanding to sun destinations doesn't mean much for now, if they dont offer complete packages (flights + hotel at least). Who buys a plane ticket alone to Cuba or Dominican Republic for example ? Friends or family visiting locals, that's about it.

Again, you're right. But Cuba and the DR aren't the entire Caribbean, and not everyone is a college student doing March break in Cuba in a 2 1/2-star for $700 for a week. There are plenty of higher-yield destinations where such a strategy could be effective. Think Mexico, Costa Rica, Barbados, etc.

[Old fella]

CBC Calgary just said they have commitments for 46 tails in 7 years.

Ah here we go. Reminiscent of that CanadaJetlines ongoing 5-6 yr saga that had similar glossy web site with pictures , announcements on aircraft acquisition from A320 to B737, a revolving door of Executives seeking other peoples money and partnerships with some obscure entities. Finally it was given a quick burial with the many kg’s of horseshit on top of it. If I remember correctly there were six or seven pages of various commentary on this site - entertaining though.

Apparently they're still kicking

https://www.jetlines.ca/

And just signed some deal with Lufthansa Technik

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-j ... 00464.html

Read the Cautionary Note on Forward Looking Information at end of the Yahoo Finance link.

Nuff Said!!!

[twa22]

Ah here we go. Reminiscent of that CanadaJetlines ongoing 5-6 yr saga that had similar glossy web site with pictures , announcements on aircraft acquisition from A320 to B737, a revolving door of Executives seeking other peoples money and partnerships with some obscure entities. Finally it was given a quick burial with the many kg’s of horseshit on top of it. If I remember correctly there were six or seven pages of various commentary on this site - entertaining though.

Apparently they're still kicking

https://www.jetlines.ca/

And just signed some deal with Lufthansa Technik

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/canada-j ... 00464.html

Read the Cautionary Note on Forward Looking Information at end of the Yahoo Finance link.

Nuff Said!!!

Oh I don't think they'll ever take off at this point (no pun intended), but they're still floating around trying to it seems

[mmm..bacon]

The aviation market is becoming exceptionally saturated in this country. Soon we will have:

1. Air Canada / Rouge
2. WestJet / Swoop
3. Porter (order for 30 Embraer E195-E2s with purchase rights for 50 more)
4. Flair (12 737s, with a stated goal to grow to 50 within 5 years)
5. Sunwing (primarily sun destinations, probably less exposed to competition, but with Flair adding Mexico + Caribbean flying, still has to be somewhat concerned about new market entrants)
6. Transat (same as above)
7. Lynx Air (plans to add 46 737s over the next seven years)

I strongly suspect that there is not nearly enough passenger demand in this country to sustain this many airlines in the long term.

[Emphasis mine] Or, as Sir Freddie Laker put it more succinctly 40-odd years ago: 'It's all about getting [passenger] bums into seats'...

[Flylikearedneck]

Well I hope the CEO speaks French!