i am a medium time beaver driver with limited boat hauling experience(less than ten times in my career).
i know what i like for a load for the beaver, but i would like to hear from the old timers who have seen the good the bad and the ugly of boat hauls.
any thoughts on the newer 16 foot, wider body lunds?
i say that is the load in itself, what have others found?
".....the pilot last year took a 16 foot lund, 128 people, 47 outboards, and the lake was 200 miles away"
a boat, 6 people,3 moose, and a 40 horse
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boat head77
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a boat, 6 people,3 moose, and a 40 horse
Last edited by boat head77 on Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: a boat, 6 people,3 moose, and a 40 horse
I don’t have lot of time in the piston Beaver but that is more than one trip…more like three trips!boat head77 wrote:i am a medium time beaver driver with limited boat hauling experience(less than ten times in my career).
i know what i like for a load for the beaver, but i would like to hear from the old timers who have seen the good the bad and the ugly of boat hauls.
any thoughts on the newer 16 foot, wider body lunds?
i say that is the load in itself, what have others found?
".....the pilot last year took a 16 foot lund, 8 people, 4 outboards, and the lake was 200 miles away"
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Rudder Bug
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Way overload man!
Assuming a scenario using average numbers, it looks like this:".....the pilot last year took a 16 foot lund, 8 people, 4 outboards, and the lake was 200 miles away"
A/C EW: 3,500
250 lbs Boat x2: 500
8 pax, males and females: 1,200
Pilot + his gears: 200
4 10hp motors: 200
2,5 hour fuel: 330
Survival gear: 50
If our 8 pax don't have any carry-on or are not overweight, and small outboard motors, I come up with an all-up weight of 5,980, exceeding the legal limt by 890 lbs.
I am not talking about the dramatically degraded overal manoeuvrability and performances then. For sure it can fly, any idiot could get it airborne. Is that one still employed?
Those 16 footers are almost 70" wide and can not sit on the float and clear the wing strut. Unless you are equiped with the proper type of canoe rack like those not attached to the wing strut, you can't use binders but ropes instead because the float struts are too short.
With a light load inside and on a nice day over friendly grounds, you'll gently purr your way on at 85 mph with enough flaps to stay up, usually around climb setting.
With that category of boats and two full tanks, a couple guys, their camping gear and a flat of beer in the cabin will gross you right to the limits. If there is much more to carry, give some to your Cessna buddy. You will only generate business and employment, while flying safely and legally.
Flying an aircraft and building a guitar are two things that are easy to do bad and difficult to do right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
As a side note I'm wondering how many other beaver pilots out there have removable boat racks that attach to the strut and floats. My boss keeps stressing the fact that they're rare due to the difficulty in certifying them with TC and as such to use them with care. Is this really the case? God knows what I'd do without them!
OK people obviously Boat head77's quote about the 8 passenger, outboards etc. is written as something you would hear from the boss or the paying customer. Any pilot with any self worth would never attempt that!
Where I used to work and that was many years ago, we would never tie a wide Lund to a beaver. They would get strapped under the Twin Beech's. My experience tells me that if you are carrying one, the boat and maybe a few small outboards inside would be the limit.
Mr. North, standard boat racks for Beavers have been around as long as Beavers and are easily removable. If you are referring to the type like a Norseman has, then I have never seen them on a Beaver.
Where I used to work and that was many years ago, we would never tie a wide Lund to a beaver. They would get strapped under the Twin Beech's. My experience tells me that if you are carrying one, the boat and maybe a few small outboards inside would be the limit.
Mr. North, standard boat racks for Beavers have been around as long as Beavers and are easily removable. If you are referring to the type like a Norseman has, then I have never seen them on a Beaver.
You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
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West Coast Swell
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- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:46 am
Read your Company operations manual focusing on the specific's listed in the External load operations section.
If that section is not there, check the Company Air Operator Certificate to see if you even have an Ops Spec listed approving external load carrying certification.
If you do, there will be plenty of helpful info in there to learn the basics.
If you do not "you have just broke every rule" in the book and you better not crash and survive because you gonna get your ass sued off big time.
Some companies don't care. Some do. I prefer not to get sued. But that is my personal choice.
Good luck. Oh and buy the way. Even a Turbo Beaver with the upgross mods cannot take 8 passenges with fuel legally with zero baggage on a two hour trip return nevermind the "other stuff"
If that section is not there, check the Company Air Operator Certificate to see if you even have an Ops Spec listed approving external load carrying certification.
If you do, there will be plenty of helpful info in there to learn the basics.
If you do not "you have just broke every rule" in the book and you better not crash and survive because you gonna get your ass sued off big time.
Some companies don't care. Some do. I prefer not to get sued. But that is my personal choice.
Good luck. Oh and buy the way. Even a Turbo Beaver with the upgross mods cannot take 8 passenges with fuel legally with zero baggage on a two hour trip return nevermind the "other stuff"
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boat head77
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that manifest was supposed to be humorous, perhaps i should have exagerated more, i figured people would see that.
i have read the ops manual, external loads are covered.
what i am really interested in is what people have found over the years that works, doesn't work. i would like to know what people have learned from experience.
here is the type of thing i meant:
"i havefound a 14' boat, 3 people, and a couple hundred pounds of gear will go nicely over a 50 mile haul"
OR
"i once tried to take a 16 foot lund with fuel for 100 miles and 2 guys and an outboard. the plane flew like s**t, barely maintained altitude, i would never do that again"
i have read the ops manual, external loads are covered.
what i am really interested in is what people have found over the years that works, doesn't work. i would like to know what people have learned from experience.
here is the type of thing i meant:
"i havefound a 14' boat, 3 people, and a couple hundred pounds of gear will go nicely over a 50 mile haul"
OR
"i once tried to take a 16 foot lund with fuel for 100 miles and 2 guys and an outboard. the plane flew like s**t, barely maintained altitude, i would never do that again"
i've flown externals of all sorts on the Beaver, and Norseman, and to be honest, i'd take my old norseman any day. Nice rack to tie to, no tail shaking, and you can still open the doors with a big load tied on(due to the rack)
I found that loads fly way better on the right side (debate coming on....)
I hauled a fairly wide canoe, about 17 feet long, but light, on the beaver with 3 guys, maybe 200# of gear, and full front and center tanks, for a 50 mile trip, and the only way to keep it a comfy ride was to fly with 30" on and climb flap. I'd take the old Norseman any day, even if it takes a bit more water to get off.
I found that loads fly way better on the right side (debate coming on....)
I hauled a fairly wide canoe, about 17 feet long, but light, on the beaver with 3 guys, maybe 200# of gear, and full front and center tanks, for a 50 mile trip, and the only way to keep it a comfy ride was to fly with 30" on and climb flap. I'd take the old Norseman any day, even if it takes a bit more water to get off.
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snake pit crawler
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- Location: Barrie, Ont
take the weight of your boat, double it and subtract this from your normal useful load.
eg boat weighs 175lbs
useful load is 1000lbs.
175x2=350
1000lbs-350=650lbs
just rough ballparking here but hasn't failed me(or countless others).
common sense people, take into consideration things like reduced airspeed means reduced groundspeed means guess what? same distance trip requires more fuel, factor in you may be cruising at higher than normal power settings and there's more fuel. temperature/density altitude. be smart. like i said, think it through, ask around, an experienced driver should be more than willing to help. there's always another day, another trip, throw some overload on the buck-eighty, whatever. don't be pressured.
the boat racks? as mentioned earlier, they've been around forever, if the boss whines about stc's and shit, he/she is a cheap bastard. yeah you can pad the float struts all you want, but at the end of the day, they will wear and it's time consuming. bolt the racks on(it takes 2 minutes) herc-strap the bitch (use ropes if you wish, i did in the beginning but lets face it the time saved, and extra safety margin gained by herc straps far outweighs the coolness and nostalgia of ropin' er) get good ones. not those 1 inch jobbies on sale every other week at canadian tire. a 2 inch strap is good rated to a couple thousand pounds each. caution, keep the webbing clean and use for the aircraft only(not for dump runs in the company pick-up.) make sure the mechanism is lubricated, free from wear, and make damn sure they are properly latched(locked) check and double/triple check your loads for security. be sure that NOTHING will come loose from the boat at all(seats, bits of rope whatever) if it comes off and hits your tail.....you're fucked!
anyway, could go on for hours with which side to fly it on but i (and many others) have flown external loads on both sides and either way works just fine. i've flown many types of external loads on both the dash2/3
and both machines are quite capable. but, like any aircraft(maintenance aside) are only as safe as the pilot behind the wheel.
3/4" 4'x8' sheets strapped to the spreader bars on the dash2 fly incredibly well.
an arctic cat 440 strapped to the side of the beav works too.
16' 2x4's, 2x10's 6x6's are all great on the floats(beaver of course)
take both doors off the beav in the winter on skis and you can have snowmachine sticking out both sides. cold but works.
ladders, bicycles, whatever, it'll do it, but use common sense man.
the otter..... that's a different story. most of the stuff mentioned can be flown inside, but the boat racks for the otter are even more robust and just as easily installed.
my two cents.
gonna miss all the floats/ski work on both machines but my back won't
got a new gig now. kinda like a retirement, hardly work, benefits, not much thinking involved(IFR centrestored flight plans) problem is, if TC has it's way with my new machine, i'll be heading back for the bush......NOT
eg boat weighs 175lbs
useful load is 1000lbs.
175x2=350
1000lbs-350=650lbs
just rough ballparking here but hasn't failed me(or countless others).
common sense people, take into consideration things like reduced airspeed means reduced groundspeed means guess what? same distance trip requires more fuel, factor in you may be cruising at higher than normal power settings and there's more fuel. temperature/density altitude. be smart. like i said, think it through, ask around, an experienced driver should be more than willing to help. there's always another day, another trip, throw some overload on the buck-eighty, whatever. don't be pressured.
the boat racks? as mentioned earlier, they've been around forever, if the boss whines about stc's and shit, he/she is a cheap bastard. yeah you can pad the float struts all you want, but at the end of the day, they will wear and it's time consuming. bolt the racks on(it takes 2 minutes) herc-strap the bitch (use ropes if you wish, i did in the beginning but lets face it the time saved, and extra safety margin gained by herc straps far outweighs the coolness and nostalgia of ropin' er) get good ones. not those 1 inch jobbies on sale every other week at canadian tire. a 2 inch strap is good rated to a couple thousand pounds each. caution, keep the webbing clean and use for the aircraft only(not for dump runs in the company pick-up.) make sure the mechanism is lubricated, free from wear, and make damn sure they are properly latched(locked) check and double/triple check your loads for security. be sure that NOTHING will come loose from the boat at all(seats, bits of rope whatever) if it comes off and hits your tail.....you're fucked!
anyway, could go on for hours with which side to fly it on but i (and many others) have flown external loads on both sides and either way works just fine. i've flown many types of external loads on both the dash2/3
and both machines are quite capable. but, like any aircraft(maintenance aside) are only as safe as the pilot behind the wheel.
3/4" 4'x8' sheets strapped to the spreader bars on the dash2 fly incredibly well.
an arctic cat 440 strapped to the side of the beav works too.
16' 2x4's, 2x10's 6x6's are all great on the floats(beaver of course)
take both doors off the beav in the winter on skis and you can have snowmachine sticking out both sides. cold but works.
ladders, bicycles, whatever, it'll do it, but use common sense man.
the otter..... that's a different story. most of the stuff mentioned can be flown inside, but the boat racks for the otter are even more robust and just as easily installed.
my two cents.
gonna miss all the floats/ski work on both machines but my back won't
got a new gig now. kinda like a retirement, hardly work, benefits, not much thinking involved(IFR centrestored flight plans) problem is, if TC has it's way with my new machine, i'll be heading back for the bush......NOT
to "upchuck", or whatever your name is...
what's your point/problem?
did someone shit/piss in your cornflakes??
first of all, i don't know you and obviously you don't know jackshit about me by your ridiculous remarks. all i know about you is you use the term"JOE BOY" frequently. i've flown both dashs' lots. with plenty of "left seat" time, in fact that's all i have. 30%+ of my TT is on wheel-skis(1600hrs.) on both -2 and swines. do the math. if you're wanting to start a pissing match, or a "my dick is bigger than yours" contest, go elswhere. i'm not interested. if you'd like to discuss the topic at hand, have at 'er. if i've got you all wrong, and your just having a bad day, hope it gets better.
if you'd like, by all means pm me and we can discuss the finer things.
if i had a fortune (which i don't), the last thing i'd do is even think about being an owner/operator, why would i pose as one?
if you are still flying floats/skis, have a good season/seasons.
cheers,
dash2/3
p.s. if anyone still thinks they should send me a resume, don't. pm me and i'll give my 2 cents as to who you might send it too. unlike others, i haven't forgot where i came from and how hard it was to get as far as i have(which isn't far BTW). we were all newbies once.
what's your point/problem?
did someone shit/piss in your cornflakes??
first of all, i don't know you and obviously you don't know jackshit about me by your ridiculous remarks. all i know about you is you use the term"JOE BOY" frequently. i've flown both dashs' lots. with plenty of "left seat" time, in fact that's all i have. 30%+ of my TT is on wheel-skis(1600hrs.) on both -2 and swines. do the math. if you're wanting to start a pissing match, or a "my dick is bigger than yours" contest, go elswhere. i'm not interested. if you'd like to discuss the topic at hand, have at 'er. if i've got you all wrong, and your just having a bad day, hope it gets better.
if you'd like, by all means pm me and we can discuss the finer things.
if i had a fortune (which i don't), the last thing i'd do is even think about being an owner/operator, why would i pose as one?
if you are still flying floats/skis, have a good season/seasons.
cheers,
dash2/3
p.s. if anyone still thinks they should send me a resume, don't. pm me and i'll give my 2 cents as to who you might send it too. unlike others, i haven't forgot where i came from and how hard it was to get as far as i have(which isn't far BTW). we were all newbies once.
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Rudder Bug
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:09 pm
- Location: Right seat but I own the seat
His Corn Flakes
Hi dash2/3
They must have shit in his Corn Flakes. I like your writing and please keep talking to those still enjoying their Corn Flakes.
How were your Corn Flakes today by the way? Mine were fine. I threw in banana slices and some Shredded Weath. Gee what a snack man.
Do you still love flying after your Corn Flakes? Did you ever have some Corn Flakes one mile high? Nor did I. We should start a big club. Any idea bud?
Cheers
They must have shit in his Corn Flakes. I like your writing and please keep talking to those still enjoying their Corn Flakes.
How were your Corn Flakes today by the way? Mine were fine. I threw in banana slices and some Shredded Weath. Gee what a snack man.
Do you still love flying after your Corn Flakes? Did you ever have some Corn Flakes one mile high? Nor did I. We should start a big club. Any idea bud?
Cheers
Flying an aircraft and building a guitar are two things that are easy to do bad and difficult to do right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
hey there rudder bug, thanks man. i'd say lets call it the corn flake club but i'm sure someone would twist and contort that into something even more funny.
anyway, i just like to keep things... like me, simple. i've paid my dues like many others. did my time. loved almost every minute of it, and no regrets. i haven't by any stretch "made to NIRVANA" or anything, and besides. it's all relative. what is great for one may not be for the next guy. we all ate shit along the way and even learned to like it and ask for seconds...
i hope i get the chance to fly floats again... it seems funny. me saying that. it was only NOV.2nd, the last flight on floats for me....
i often ask myself where i'll be a year, 3 years or more from now???
anyway, i just like to keep things... like me, simple. i've paid my dues like many others. did my time. loved almost every minute of it, and no regrets. i haven't by any stretch "made to NIRVANA" or anything, and besides. it's all relative. what is great for one may not be for the next guy. we all ate shit along the way and even learned to like it and ask for seconds...
i hope i get the chance to fly floats again... it seems funny. me saying that. it was only NOV.2nd, the last flight on floats for me....
i often ask myself where i'll be a year, 3 years or more from now???
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Rudder Bug
- Rank 10
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- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:09 pm
- Location: Right seat but I own the seat
5 Mile High Corn Flakes
Dear Dash,
Maybe you're right and some guys will make it bigger. After the Trailer Park Boys, why not The Flying Corn Flakes Gang and so on.
I remember reading an article in Hustler mag. You kow I buy it for the articles. It was Keith Richards. His speech was much like ours. He wants to live out of what he loves.
We are just another rolling stone.
Maybe you're right and some guys will make it bigger. After the Trailer Park Boys, why not The Flying Corn Flakes Gang and so on.
I remember reading an article in Hustler mag. You kow I buy it for the articles. It was Keith Richards. His speech was much like ours. He wants to live out of what he loves.
We are just another rolling stone.
Flying an aircraft and building a guitar are two things that are easy to do bad and difficult to do right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Yd_QppdGks
