KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

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YYJ_Jeff
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KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by YYJ_Jeff »

Yet another new airline... starting early 2022 with 737 NG's. HIring crew for Kelowna and Calgary.

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_CA
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pumpkinpatch
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by pumpkinpatch »

YYJ_Jeff wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:59 pm Yet another new airline... starting early 2022 with 737 NG's. HIring crew for Kelowna and Calgary.

https://workforcenow.adp.com/mascsr/def ... lang=en_CA
KF Aerospace is excited to announce the introduction of a new charter airline....
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DanWEC
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by DanWEC »

From their job ad:
"Hiring 737 F/O's with IATRA or Saron/Samra written."

Holy frick. Also gives you an idea what they're likely going to pay both seats.
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co-joe
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by co-joe »

I would think that if they are operating on KF's OC that any pilots hired would become ALPA members and have to be paid by their current CBA no?
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Bradley Tucker
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by Bradley Tucker »

DanWEC wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:34 pm From their job ad:
"Hiring 737 F/O's with IATRA or Saron/Samra written."

Holy frick. Also gives you an idea what they're likely going to pay both seats.
Not sure you are making a fair assumption here. How does advertising the minimum requirements equate to the wage paid?

I worked for KF in the past and noting but a fair operation and I felt they looked after me very well as long as I did my job like it should be.

As industry members should be we not be happy there are more employment opportunities at this time, instead of casting a negative image?
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Bradley Tucker
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by Bradley Tucker »

co-joe wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:06 am I would think that if they are operating on KF's OC that any pilots hired would become ALPA members and have to be paid by their current CBA no?
KF flight crews are part of ALAP and as such have a collective agreement and when I was last there it had a pay scale for their turboprop, narrow body and wide body jets. I can only assume that that is still in place as they are operating the CV580.
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DanWEC
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by DanWEC »

Bradley Tucker wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:21 pm
DanWEC wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:34 pm From their job ad:
"Hiring 737 F/O's with IATRA or Saron/Samra written."

Holy frick. Also gives you an idea what they're likely going to pay both seats.
Not sure you are making a fair assumption here. How does advertising the minimum requirements equate to the wage paid?

I worked for KF in the past and noting but a fair operation and I felt they looked after me very well as long as I did my job like it should be.

As industry members should be we not be happy there are more employment opportunities at this time, instead of casting a negative image?
Don't worry, no negativity towards KFC intended, they've always had a good rep.
It's just a statement inferring from the ad. I've never seen a 73 position in North America with essentially a bare CPL requirement. Ever. So generally with pay commensurate with experience, they may be looking to trim labour by have less experienced crews. That old thing.....
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ant_321
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by ant_321 »

DanWEC wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:49 pm
Bradley Tucker wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 1:21 pm
DanWEC wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:34 pm From their job ad:
"Hiring 737 F/O's with IATRA or Saron/Samra written."

Holy frick. Also gives you an idea what they're likely going to pay both seats.
Not sure you are making a fair assumption here. How does advertising the minimum requirements equate to the wage paid?

I worked for KF in the past and noting but a fair operation and I felt they looked after me very well as long as I did my job like it should be.

As industry members should be we not be happy there are more employment opportunities at this time, instead of casting a negative image?
Don't worry, no negativity towards KFC intended, they've always had a good rep.
It's just a statement inferring from the ad. I've never seen a 73 position in North America with essentially a bare CPL requirement. Ever. So generally with pay commensurate with experience, they may be looking to trim labour by have less experienced crews. That old thing.....
https://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agree ... 84604a.pdf

Here’s their agreement. The FO pay looks roughly on par with most companies. The captain pay caps out pretty low.
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DanWEC
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by DanWEC »

That's pretty bad for the left seat and senior FO, but hey, it's better than Swoop!
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dialdriver
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by dialdriver »

That contract expired about a year and a half ago.
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ant_321
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by ant_321 »

dialdriver wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:20 pm That contract expired about a year and a half ago.
According to the alpa website they haven’t negotiated a new contract yet.
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Greasy Greaser
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by Greasy Greaser »

DanWEC wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:13 pm That's pretty bad for the left seat and senior FO, but hey, it's better than Swoop!
Not defending Swoop wages but from that KFC document, 7 year narrow body captain at KFC makes about third year Swoop Captain.
7 year FO KFC about on par with third year Swoop FO, give or take 800. Using 2019 dates from the WJ/Swoop collective agreement to keep it fair since KFC ends in 2019 from what I can see. This is of course not adding per-diems and using 75 mmg for Swoop which I think they use.

Hopefully this is realized and both groups get a wage increase lol.
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hithere
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by hithere »

I understand the desire to compare contracts. So be it. Am I the only one that thinks that 2022 is going to be absolute carnage in the airline industry? Insane expansion/ pilot hiring by airlines that are not even going to last a year only to either go bust or substantially contract.
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330heavy
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by 330heavy »

hithere wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:22 pm I understand the desire to compare contracts. So be it. Am I the only one that thinks that 2022 is going to be absolute carnage in the airline industry? Insane expansion/ pilot hiring by airlines that are not even going to last a year only to either go bust or substantially contract.
Yes, and we all here know that, and can see it coming. Unfortunately, the c-suite's and investors do not. For anyone, do yourself a favour and do your homework, have something to fall back on, because this musical chair game isn't over yet. If you want the PPC and a year of experience, have at 'er. If you're looking for stability, stick to where you're at or go the established companies.

As a note to the increased capacity from the companies I know of so far -

Numbers are the increase from 2019 to overall next few years or so:
Flair +40 ish
Porter +50
Transat +dozen or so
Lynx +46
Jetlines (lol) +15
OWG +4?
KFC +??
Westjet ??
Swoop??
Air Canada ??

Feel free to add or correct.

As you can see, that's unsustainable capacity for Canada, and given the never-ending travel restrictions and covid which is going to stay for years to come.
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rudder
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by rudder »

330heavy wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:20 am
Yes, and we all here know that, and can see it coming. Unfortunately, the c-suite's and investors do not. For anyone, do yourself a favour and do your homework, have something to fall back on, because this musical chair game isn't over yet. If you want the PPC and a year of experience, have at 'er. If you're looking for stability, stick to where you're at or go the established companies.

As a note to the increased capacity from the companies I know of so far -

Numbers are the increase from 2019 to overall next few years or so:
Flair +40 ish
Porter +50
Transat +dozen or so
Lynx +46
Jetlines (lol) +15
OWG +4?
KFC +??
Westjet ??
Swoop??
Air Canada ??

Feel free to add or correct.

As you can see, that's unsustainable capacity for Canada, and given the never-ending travel restrictions and covid which is going to stay for years to come.
As you wrote, this is a pipe dream.

Canada’s population is stable to decreasing (relies on immigration for repopulation).

There is no ‘increasing’ intra-domestic demand, even pre-COVID. Increased capacity to sun destinations? Good luck. Lots of capacity available already on these routes from TS/SW/AC/WJ. AC had a dramatic international destination plan in place pre-COVID. Whete is that at now?

This “fly it and they will come” philosophy is a joke. Just like $99 fares.

The current players aren’t going away, and aren’t going to back down. New entrants will be flushing investor $$ down the toilet.

Just pull up a chair and grab some popcorn. It will be an interesting watch.
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co-joe
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by co-joe »

rudder wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:43 am
There is no ‘increasing’ intra-domestic demand, even pre-COVID. Increased capacity to sun destinations? Good luck. Lots of capacity available already on these routes from TS/SW/AC/WJ. AC had a dramatic international destination plan in place pre-COVID. Whete is that at now?

...
There actually is an increase in the number of passengers using air travel in Canada, and the ULCCs are the ones driving that expansion. Milenials and immigrants are buying tickets to fly in larger and larger numbers, and as their earning increases, some of them will move to higher fares with the legacy carriers for one reason or another. More people are flying more places (covid aside) and the growth is mostly in the ULCC fare market.
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rudder
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by rudder »

co-joe wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:11 am


There actually is an increase in the number of passengers using air travel in Canada, and the ULCCs are the ones driving that expansion. Milenials and immigrants are buying tickets to fly in larger and larger numbers, and as their earning increases, some of them will move to higher fares with the legacy carriers for one reason or another. More people are flying more places (covid aside) and the growth is mostly in the ULCC fare market.
AC and WJ swapping domestic inventory from mainline to Rouge/Swoop is not an increase in travellers. It is the same travellers either choosing or being forced in to a different product.

Statistics indicate that increase in domestic travel pre-COVID was nominal. But don’t let that stop anyone from trying.

Canada’s population is less than the state of California. And that is not changing. But perhaps charging less than bus fare for an airline ticket will in fact stimulate more millennials and immigrants to travel…….you cannot possibly be serious in that assessment of the target demographic for ULCC? Let’s just call it VFR traffic (visiting friends and relatives).
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palebird
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by palebird »

Exactly. It is a farce. These characters are all trying to catch a falling knife. It has all been done before and they keep on trying the same thing hoping for a different outcome. Have fun.
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by bezerker »

One positive comment from Palebird. Ever.

Sit back and have a nice sip of scotch dude.

We are all hangry in Canada. Be happy there are more 705 positions and we can go from there.

If you want to complain about Canadian expansion, at least give us a reason why new companies/expansion is bad, not just “this is crap and they will fail”.

It has no context when every comment is the same.

You seem informed. Give us the goods.
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Re: KFC is starting a new passenger charter airline

Post by Latitude »

bezerker wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:02 pm One positive comment from Palebird. Ever.

Sit back and have a nice sip of scotch dude.

We are all hangry in Canada. Be happy there are more 705 positions and we can go from there.

If you want to complain about Canadian expansion, at least give us a reason why new companies/expansion is bad, not just “this is crap and they will fail”.

It has no context when every comment is the same.

You seem informed. Give us the goods.
So it's good.... but they drag flight prices down to the point of going bankrupt and have shit pay but hey more '' 705 '' positions! It's good :rolleyes:

When a 12 year FO on the 737 earns the same as a junior (2-3 year) captain on a Q400... :lol: Or when a 12 year FO on the 737 earns the same as a year 3 narrow body FO at an established major. :rolleyes:
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