DA40 vs SR20

[davidnapper1]

Hi Everyone! Brand new here so I appreciate any feedback in advance!

Ok so I am a new pilot, nearing 80Hours, getting ready to really get out and explore in the spring. I currently own a '73 Piper 180 and it has been great! But, I am in a position to upgrade so I am looking to the market and from my research and conversations so far I am looking for advice between a DA40 and SR20.

The factors that run through my head that will lead my final decision are ....
- I am new and not a cowboy. I like to feel in control/comfortable. I am definitely not a sport pilot
- One reason for upgrading is because my family will feel more comfortable with something "newer". I know, that we know that age isn't everything however my wife would definitely "feel" more comfortable in plane with a glass cockpit and new paint for example. It's the perception
- One of my main missions will be taking the family to the cottage now!! It's a grass strip about 2,300 feet in Emsdale Ontario. I hear the nose gear on the DA40s might be an issue?? again everyone has an opinion but love to hear different perspectives. I am being told you can slam an Archer or 172 on the strip no problem but the gear in the DA40 isnt as robust?
- Cottage is only about 100NM trip
- Kids are young still (12 and 8 years old) total weight for 4 passengers would be around 450lbs right now
- Speed isnt my biggest consideration. Anything is better than 4.5 hours on the highway in the summer
- I don't have any immediate plans for much longer cross country trips right now outside of 200NM. Pretty much - it will be some time I am sure before I am heading to Alberta or something like that.
- Budget isn't a huge consideration unless it was just a drastic difference operating costs
- with a composite plane I will lose my current hangar spot as they don't like to have those in there. That seems like a big consideration as well.

I know the DA40s have an amazing safety record especially as compared to the SR20 but maybe those numbers are skewed by something that doesn't apply to my situation. The cottage flying is important to us so that would lead a lot of the decision making any maybe the answer is a newer archer? I have just heard so many great things about the DA40 and SR20 and am in a position that I could get one so here we are. The nose gear situation could just be bad experiences from a pilot at our club as well so this is the power of a forum! More input!

As a newbie I truly appreciate the experience and advice.

[CpnCrunch]

I think either of these planes might be overkill and may not be ideal for the mission (grass strip). Also, note that there are specific training requirements for the SR20 in order to get insurance.

If comfort, paint and glass panel are requirements, then you can get all of that in a Cessna 172/182 or Piper Archer.

[digits_]

For 20k you can get a 180 painted, for another 20k you can get a nearly brand new interior installed. Probably cheaper than getting a DA40 or SR20.
Glass panel... Sure, could be nice... But hard to troubleshoot away from civilization.

I'm curious why the hangar doesn't want composite airplanes?

Composite is fairly new, it might be harder to get repairs done away from base if you ding a wing while taxiing into a tree or something.

Always nice if budget isn't the biggest concern

You say you want to explore. What does that mean? Local-ish flights with new destinations? Flying all across Canada? The US? South America? Alaska? Europe? Around the world?

[Float_lover]

Did you check the Cessna 182? They are still making brand new ones, and it would be a great choice for your grass strip. It's a bit slower but you say that you don't mind about the speed.

Cheers!

[davidnapper1]

Thanks! yeah the more I think about it, I think the allure of the newer composites is overriding the practicality of the missions. One definitely involving grass. The DA40 is really nice though!


As for the hangar, it's owned by the flight school and very busy. A lot of in and out each day so they just don't want to risk a ding on the composite. I get it.

As for exploring. So local-ish for now. I am still very new and planning on shorter trips at first (1-2 hours) to get the experience and combine it with a possible weekend somewhere with the family before really venturing out on any long trips or into the states for now. I was just giving context as it relates to needs around range and speed and useful load.

Again thanks for the feedback!

[digits_]

I wouldn't use the grass as a factor not to buy a DA40. Lots of flying clubs operate them in Europe on grass. It's not a death sentence. Every airplane will 'suffer' more on grass than on smooth pavement.

If 'looks' or first impression towards passengers are important, then a nice piper can do wonders as well. A low wing airplane looks more like a mini airliner to some. Although it could be a good idea to ask what your passengers think looks nicer...

[JasonE]

Go fly in one of each. Try it out if you can.

I'm sure Diamond has a demonstrator if you are serious.

[photofly]

You have to ding a composite plane quite hard to damage it in a hangar, and if you hit an aluminum aircraft that hard it’s going to suffer badly too.

[digits_]

You have to ding a composite plane quite hard to damage it in a hangar, and if you hit an aluminum aircraft that hard it’s going to suffer badly too.

Might it be an issue if that happens at -20 or -30? Initially that was a concern, not sure if the materials have improved much in that area.

[photofly]

You have to ding a composite plane quite hard to damage it in a hangar, and if you hit an aluminum aircraft that hard it’s going to suffer badly too.

Might it be an issue if that happens at -20 or -30? Initially that was a concern, not sure if the materials have improved much in that area.

I thought composites get stronger when they get cold; I’m not sure - but most hangars are warmer than -20

Plus 1 from me for the 182 for this mission.

[RoAF-Mig21]

I have never flown the SR, but I have a bit of time in DA40s (about 60 hrs). I don't like the plane. The control stick between the legs is really annoying. I don't recommend the Diamond (for many reasons). It's way too expensive for what it gives you. Personally I'd go for a nice Cessna 182.

[davidnapper1]

Hearing a lot of love for the 182! I will be honest, it wasn't on my radar until now. I think mostly because we only flew warriors during training except for spins so I am just more accustomed to low wings but I am going to definitely go flying in one of them now as well!

[JasonE]

I prefer high wings for passengers. They get to see more of the scenery on the ground. If I want to get somewhere, give me a sleek fast low wing.

[fish4life]

182 sounds like the perfect mission for you, there are conversions that would let you put 8.50’s (bigger tires) on that would alleviate any concerns if the grass strip got a bit soft after rain / in the spring etc at the cost of cruise speed.
Lots of 182’s out there and they are true 4 seaters for when the kids grow up along with a wider fuselage.

[scdriver]

As others have said, the 182 is a good machine and would probably serve you well. For operating off strip, the bigger fork for the nose gear to accommodate the bigger tire for prop clearance would be first thing I do. And a 3 blade is probably your friend in that department. Alternatively, given that you said budget is not the first consideration and something “newer” is preferred, look into a real nice 180. For when you get more comfortable, better for off strip and significantly better if you ever wanted to put it on floats.

[Gowyn]

I fly the DA40 quite a bit.

Nice plane but with a family of four the payload isn't there. I'm thinking long term as kids grow.

I would second/third a C182 personally.

[Scuderia]

Hi David,

Outright, another vote for the C182 from me.

The DA40 is a great airplane. I have done a number of trips using one. Easy to fly, great visibility, and that newer plane "feel" for sure. Keep in mind your payload requirements, though. With the kids growing up you may very quickly find yourself weighing each bag and counting every litre of fuel when you make those trips to the cottage. I think it may match your requirements today but will not allow for any expansion later. If you're OK with selling it and buying another plane later that is an option. As much as I enjoy the DA40, I find myself in a Bonanza, 182, or Comanche whenever I am making a meaningful trip. The DA40 really is just a much nicer and slightly quicker C172.


Diamond is relatively close to you at London CYXU. Maybe worth a trip over to their facility and check out their DA40 offerings.

Newer/new C182s are very nice machines with excellent fit and finish. Despite having the overall shape from 50+ years ago, they are modern machines.

[pelmet]

2300 feet might be a bit short for some aircraft with 4 people on board on a hot, no wind day. A primary consideration. I have flown a 182 with a engine modded for -520 cylinders(p.ponk). Might help.

[Aviatard]

2300 feet might be a bit short for some aircraft with 4 people on board on a hot, no wind day. A primary consideration. I have flown a 182 with a engine modded for -520 cylinders(p.ponk). Might help.

Emsdale, elevation 1150, has a 2500 foot and a 2000 foot runway. My DA40 POH takeoff performance chart shows for a 30C day and 2000 foot pressure altitude, no wind and max gross weight of 2535 pounds, on short grass would require about 1650 feet takeoff roll. It's doable but not much margin.

[davidnapper1]

2300 feet might be a bit short for some aircraft with 4 people on board on a hot, no wind day. A primary consideration. I have flown a 182 with a engine modded for -520 cylinders(p.ponk). Might help.

Emsdale, elevation 1150, has a 2500 foot and a 2000 foot runway. My DA40 POH takeoff performance chart shows for a 30C day and 2000 foot pressure altitude, no wind and max gross weight of 2535 pounds, on short grass would require about 1650 feet takeoff roll. It's doable but not much margin.

This is a great point and as a newer pilot not a margin I really want to mess around with including family. It can get close to 30 at the cottage no problem and if you're heading there you're likely pushing mas gross. The Diamond I do have a line on is the NG so in my head I was thinking between the short distance to the cottage and the lesser required fuel then that could offset a bit but this was all before I really started really looking into the spec on the 182. I again just made an assumption that because of the higher horsepower of the 182 it was going to be longer on ground roll and take off distance but as I start to learn about these I am seeing why they call them the minivan of planes. They are really versatile.