Contrail.....??

[Doc]

I know, it's a really stupid question...but, I see it all the time....what is this contrail thingy? I thought it was the white pus trail left behind by high flying aircraft....but methinks I'm missing something?

[Brewguy]

Not really sure what this has to do with employment...?
But nevertheless, here it is:

Contrail
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contrails are condensation trails (sometimes vapour trails): artificial cirrus clouds made by the exhaust of aircraft engines or wingtip vortices which precipitate a stream of tiny ice crystals in moist, frigid upper air.

Contrail creation

Contrails are created in one of two ways:

1. First, the airplane's exhaust increases the amount of moisture in the air, which can push the water content of the air past saturation point. This causes condensation to occur, and the contrail to form.

Airplane fuel such as petrol/gasoline (piston engines) or paraffin/kerosene (jet engines) consists primarily of hydrocarbons. When the fuel is burned, the carbon combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide; the hydrogen also combines with oxygen to form water, which emerges as superheated steam in the exhaust. For every gallon of fuel burned, approximately one gallon of water is produced, in addition to the water already present as humidity in the air used to burn the fuel. At high altitudes this steam emerges into a freezing environment, (as altitude increases, the atmospheric temperature drops) which lowers the temperature of the steam until each individual droplet freezes into tiny ice crystal. These millions of tiny ice crystals form the contrails. The time the steam/water droplets take to freeze accounts for the contrail forming some way behind the aircraft's engines.

2. The wings of an airplane cause a drop in air pressure in the vicinity of the wing (this is partly what allows a plane to fly). This drop in air pressure brings with it a drop in temperature, which can cause water to condense out of the air and form a contrail.

Exhaust contrails tend to be more stable and long-lasting than wing-tip contrails, which are often disrupted by the aircraft's wake and are commonly very short-lived.

[Babel Fish]

I know, it's a really stupid question...but, I see it all the time....what is this contrail thingy? I thought it was the white pus trail left behind by high flying aircraft....but methinks I'm missing something?

There are others here that can give you a more accurate, detailed answer but here's the readers digest version (as I understand it)...

Contrail is a Calgary based aviation consultation firm headed by a pilot wannabe who couldn't make it in the industry so he started this firm which tells the oil companies (and anyone else who requires charter services and doesn't know anyting about aviation) what the minimum requirements should be of the crews that are flying around their executives. Basically he's making a boatload of cash by playing of of the ignorance of others. Makes getting a job in YYC a colossal pain in the ass (ie. he's the reason why the minimums are so high in Calgary as compared to the rest of the country). At least that's my take on the company.

[Doc]

So, who is this turkey...and how high are the minimums in YYC? Sounds like he has found a "cash cow"!

[wha happen]

KING AIR 100

Captain
3000TT, 1500 PIC, 1500 Turbine

First Officer
500 TT, 250 PIC, 250 Multi

[moe]

it's 1500 multi not turbine.

[Doc]

So, like how would an FO, comming in with 250 PIC, ever get an upgrade? And 1500 multi seems a bit high....good luck filling left seats with people who will stick around more than a month or two?

[Leading Edge]

I know, it's a really stupid question...but, I see it all the time....what is this contrail thingy? I thought it was the white pus trail left behind by high flying aircraft....but methinks I'm missing something?

There are others here that can give you a more accurate, detailed answer but here's the readers digest version (as I understand it)...

Contrail is a Calgary based aviation consultation firm headed by a pilot wannabe who couldn't make it in the industry so he started this firm which tells the oil companies (and anyone else who requires charter services and doesn't know anyting about aviation) what the minimum requirements should be of the crews that are flying around their executives. Basically he's making a boatload of cash by playing of of the ignorance of others. Makes getting a job in YYC a colossal pain in the ass (ie. he's the reason why the minimums are so high in Calgary as compared to the rest of the country). At least that's my take on the company.

What he said.

Real pain in the ass for upgrades and keeping guys who are already 'Contrail Approved'. This guy really has the pimp daddy job, all he has to do is sell his 'safety' standards to big corporations and once in a while, personally approve or deny waivers for pilots.

Amazing how one guy can compicate things. Quite the racket if you can get it!

Edge

[ehbuddy]

So here's the deal guys.........

Lets form a brand new company called........'WESAYSO"

We will go to all of the Travel Agencies in Canada and for a fee we will give them a list of the safe Airlines in Canada for them to book their clients on.

Then we will go into the offices of Westjet, Air Canada, Air Transat etc etc and do extensive internal audits to see if they meet our strict criteria. And because WE SAY SO will will also offer those companies a minimum hiring standard that they will have to adhere to our we will not give them approval to use our caged list of Travel Agencies.

This Contrail thingie has got to be the biggest load of crap I have ever seen and I wonder if what he is doing is actually legal. But........until those companies dealing with him get together as a group and tell him to take a flying #### this b.s will continue.

[...]

Contrail is a Calgary based aviation consultation firm headed by a pilot wannabe who couldn't make it in the industry so he started this firm which tells the oil companies (and anyone else who requires charter services and doesn't know anyting about aviation) what the minimum requirements should be of the crews that are flying around their executives. Basically he's making a boatload of cash by playing of of the ignorance of others. Makes getting a job in YYC a colossal pain in the ass (ie. he's the reason why the minimums are so high in Calgary as compared to the rest of the country). At least that's my take on the company.

No way!? thats so funny!

I saw a show on these types of people and the frauds they are. Even big company execs can't initially sniff out their BS.

For a short time, these guy's can talk the talk...unfortunately they can't walk the talk...for very long...and eventually the suits will turn on them...after eating their own young as an appetizer, of course.

[ahramin]

what he is doing is actually legal

When you have the ability to seriously affect a companies finances you need good reasons for doing so or you are wide open for litigation.

I think that sooner or later he is going to make a big mistake with a company that has all of their stuff together and then he is going to pay beaucoup money.

[altiplano]

The thing about the legality is - How can he publish that Company A isn't as safe as Company B when both operated in accordance with CARS and approval by the regulator? It is wrong and if someone sues him with the right lawyer I believe they would have a good chance to make their case.

It's sorta like when larger carriers in Canada were sued for having medical guidelines beyond what TC required for a Commercial/Transport pilot license. They lost because it is discriminatory.

If he wants to consult with oil companies about the proximity/suitabilty/etc of operators and their aircraft for a given operation or act as a middle man in arranging the transport I think that is fine. I doubt however he would stay in business because companies could do it themselves as it requires less effort on their part than a full audit... But the existing way it's run is a farce.

[ScudRunner]

Man thats a sweet racket Im going to start something like that.

[Brewguy]

[ScudRunner]

KING AIR 100

Captain

3000TT, 1500 PIC, 1500 Multi

First Officer

500 TT, 250 PIC, 250 Multi

Would these be the same numbers for a 1900D??

[Carrier]

Scroll down here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34067&p=329799&hil ... ns#p329799 and you will find all the Contrail details courtesy of a helpful member. Does the SEARCH function no longer work?

[ScudRunner]

Scroll down here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=34067&p=329799&hil ... ns#p329799 and you will find all the Contrail details courtesy of a helpful member. Does the SEARCH function no longer work?

So you think I just pulled this thread out of my ass? Original Post date (Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:30 am) and the post previous to mine new inquiry (Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:24 am)

I found this one using the search function but didn't find the information I was looking for therefor I found the next best thread I found in my search to raise my query on said subject.

So the answer to your question the search works but does not always yield the specific information one may be looking for.

So for Future Users who don't find the Contrails list under "North Cariboo Mins" and perhaps where searching more of a genetic "Contrails" Search. Here Ya go






Mods Perhaps a Sticky is in order of this graph?

[Bushav8er]

His name says it all -A "Con" that will hit the "Trail" at some point. The insurance companies probably love this guy.

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

Contrail is not really too bad. Companies like Shell, Imperial/Exxon, ConocoPhillips, Total and Statoil Hydro are the real annoying ones.. Trying to provide lift for them all at the same time sucks. It's a headache.

There is also a lot more to these requirements (Contrail included) than just Pilot Flight Hours as well. They touch on everything from duty hours to aircraft parts control etc...

They even have aircraft age limits.

[youngtimer]

Bushav8or hit the nail on the head. Once the insurance companies have a base line, it ain't going anywhere but up from there..., the day I got out of the charter world was one of the happiest of my life...

[roger.roger]

Once the insurance companies have a base line, it ain't going anywhere but up from there

Did contrails get reduced last year?

[Doc]

What an absolute sack of shit. An industry that is told what to do, who to hire, who can fly who, when, why and where....by some salesman sitting behind a desk who thinks his shit doesn't stink. You deserve CONTRAILS because as an industry, you (YYC based mostly) didn't have the gonads to get up on your hind legs and tell your customers that YOU, the industry, not some suit who couldn't make it in the real world, hire, train and qualify YOUR pilots.

Do you THINK for one moment your precious oil companies check the qualifications of the 250 hour wonder that Jazz, slipped into the right seat fresh out of receiving a free, tax payer funded education? You know they don't. They just scamper up the steps of that old RJ like salmon swimming upstream to spawn!

You guys made your bed by letting this virus into you operations in the first place. Tough shit!

[Widow]

Was Contrails created as a reaction to the WCB/OHS COR programs?

The Certificate of Recognition program (Partners in Injury Reduction) is a joint effort amongst WCB and the various industry associations. Overall... its a WCB program, however internal/external auditors are trained through various industry associations and focus on their specific industry. Enform trains those in the patch, Municipal Government personnel are trained through the (here in alberta) Alberta Municipal Health and Safety Association, Alberta Construction Safety Assoc trains/audits their people, etc.

Due to the Industry association affiliation, many think its an industry recognition, when in fact its not... It was spearheaded by workers compensation boards. WorkplaceBC WorplaceAB etc. - in partnership with industry. For those industry sectors who do not have an association to provide auditing... WCB can provide.

http://www.hre.gov.ab.ca/cps/rde/xchg/h ... l/340.html

My understanding is that it started in alberta and moved outward from here... but I may have spoken prematurely on that point. If so, I apologize. However... this is in fact a WCB initiative... Enform, The various Safety Associations you mention are 'Certifying Partners' who have received the ability to audit their memberships. In effect, providing the services to their own specific industries in partnership with WCB. Hence the term Partners in Injury Reduction.

(From this thread.)

[Doc]

Widow, as far as I know there is nothing regulatory about contrails. Rather the brain child of somebody who has sold a parcel of goods to companies using charter air lines. I'd be just as surprised as shit to learn of any statistical relationship between the hours "required" by this snake oil salesman and flight safety, in any way, shape or form. The guy is full of crap. He has managed to sell his crap to the charter industry customers in western Canada.

The industry should have jumped all over this turkey from the word "go"....now, they're pretty much stuck with the result of their inaction.

Too bad, so sad.

[roger.roger]

The industry should have jumped all over this turkey from the word "go"....now, they're pretty much stuck with the result of their inaction.

Too bad, so sad.
Widow, as far as I know there is nothing regulatory about contrails. Rather the brain child of somebody who has sold a parcel of goods to companies using charter air lines. I'd be just as surprised as shit to learn of any statistical relationship between the hours "required" by this snake oil salesman and flight safety, in any way, shape or form. The guy is full of crap. He has managed to sell his crap to the charter industry customers in western Canada.

The industry should have jumped all over this turkey from the word "go"....now, they're pretty much stuck with the result of their inaction.

Too bad, so sad.

I'm pretty sure the companies flying with contrail requirments charge a preimuim for those requirments and when the industry went nut's and the charter companies started parking airplanes due to a lack of crews, contrails requirments came down.

as for JAZZ, I'm sure like the rest of Air Canada they will tell their customers to take a walk. But I'd be willing to bet that WS would if asked, supply contrail certified crews.