whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?

767 · Post by **767** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:17 am

i dont undertand, we have to spend like 40,000 bux to fly for just 200 hours and on top of that air canada wants you to go to "art and dance" college before u submit ur application. what the hell is up with that? i i used to skip my classes in high school and go sit in the library to read the private pilot manual. i can understand that you need alot of flying time, which makes sense. going to art college to fly, like wtf?? ive only finsihed high school and im gonna do the proffessional pilot diploma program in brampton, ont, and i have to pay almost 50 thousand dollars for that. now my question is, do i still have to go to art/science etc. college???

classiv · Post by **classiv** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:33 am

Because they can! You've got a million applications, you can't hire everyone. You've got to weed them out somehow.

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:16 am

djshan wrote:i dont undertand, we have to spend like 40,000 bux to fly for just 200 hours and on top of that air canada wants you to go to "art and dance" college before u submit ur application. what the hell is up with that? i i used to skip my classes in high school and go sit in the library to read the private pilot manual. i can understand that you need alot of flying time, which makes sense. going to art college to fly, like wtf?? ive only finsihed high school and im gonna do the proffessional pilot diploma program in brampton, ont, and i have to pay almost 50 thousand dollars for that. now my question is, do i still have to go to art/science etc. college???

First off, why not save yourself the 10 grand like you said, and use it towards a collage program. AC does not want a BFC diploma.

There are many reasons for them asking or requiring that degree/diploma.

It says on their site, it's preferred, but not an absolute requirement.

prop2jet · Post by **prop2jet** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:37 am

It is the reality of the day... If they can get applicants with degrees then they will. All other things being equal, if you are being compared to someone with a degree, they are in and you are out.

Uncle Leo · Post by **Uncle Leo** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:54 am

djshan wrote:i dont undertand, we have to spend like 40,000 bux to fly for just 200 hours and on top of that air canada wants you to go to "art and dance" college before u submit ur application. what the hell is up with that? i i used to skip my classes in high school and go sit in the library to read the private pilot manual. i can understand that you need alot of flying time, which makes sense. going to art college to fly, like wtf?? ive only finsihed high school and im gonna do the proffessional pilot diploma program in brampton, ont, and i have to pay almost 50 thousand dollars for that. now my question is, do i still have to go to art/science etc. college???

Dah how come deys needs a degrees I cans flys an airplane just fine, your, (god forbid you're) exuse me, ur, outta yr minds.

Actually I have the answer.

It's so that after you're hired, you don't come on avcanada and look like a fucking retard with your command of the english or french language.

It'll at least help keep some of the goons out of the happy fishing grounds, but alas, we still have Seneca to contend with.

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:26 am

BFC is a great place to fly. lots of airplanes, lots of variety and some pretty nice people...but dude, they're diploma means shit. i don't even think it's accredited. it would be a waste of 10g's. f_ck their diploma, do your training there and take some university courses at night, like at york or u of t....or you can even do it via interent through waterloo or athabasca (sorry if i butchered the name)

cheers

fingersmac · Post by **fingersmac** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:58 am

if you're from ontario why don't you apply to one of the subsidized colleges?

confederation college's tuition is $8500 for both years and that includes your flight training (ppl, cpl, float rating).

sault ste marie is around $12000 for three years and that includes your flight training (ppl, cpl, multi-ifr).

try these two schools. you get flight training for cheap and an "aviation college" diploma too. with the money you save you could get a university degree afterwards (some schools will even give you credit towards a degree for the two year diploma you'll complete).

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:26 am

i dont undertand, we have to spend like 40,000 bux to fly for just 200 hours

I think it's so that they can weed out the guys who think that just because they are stupid enough to spend $40k on a career that doesn't pay they should get to fly wherever they want.

The last thing air canada wants is someone who cuts classes. They invest a ton of money in training you and you have to keep up on that training or out you go and they get nothing for their money. Going to school (even art college though a science degree is looked upon a little better) shows that you can show up for classes, learn the required material, pass the exams. This is a good thing.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:40 am

Keep in mind, the Air Florida crew that went for a swim in the Potomic River a few years back had four year degrees! Just makes them better pilots! DUH!

Uncle Leo · Post by **Uncle Leo** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:50 am

Doc wrote:Keep in mind, the Air Florida crew that went for a swim in the Potomic River a few years back

Ahhh 1982
Just 24 few years ago

You're right Doc, it doesn't have anything to do with flying OR aviation. It is the state of our planet where a retard answering a telephone at a call centre better have a 4 year degree, and dammit those things are getting pretty damn easy to get anyway. Now the people that wanted to become white collar desk humpers just get lumped in with people with 4-year degrees in home VCR repair. It's a huge mess and just happend to seap into our industry.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:50 am

For those of you who have only ever worked in aviation, here's a bit of news:
An airline is a business, like any other. Of course they have unique challenges, just like every other industry has their own unique challenges too.

Now, with that being said - why should Air Canada be different from any other business of it's size? Most large companies prefer people with higher education when hiring for "professional" level positions. And as stated by others here, it is a weeding out method.

If you are an HR person, and you have far more applicants than jobs, you do what you can to slash the list down to a smaller number of "well qualified" people. So, apply in a method other than they specify - you're gone. Can't spell - you're gone. Flood them with multiple applications (all at once) - you're gone. Now, with those that are left, you start to comapre them.

You have 5 positions and (after initial weeding) 200 applicants. If only 20 of those have degrees, your job becomes a bit easier - it's just a way of slashing numbers quickly.

There are other added benefits too. Again, as already mentioned, if a person has made it through an accredited Canadian university and have a (3 or 4 year) degree - then you can make some assumptions about them:
1) they can read and write
2) they have some capacity for learning and recalling information (having passed exams)
3) they have the ability (if required) to not be a slack-ass.

The lack of a university degree doesn't necessarily mean anything. Some of the most intilligent and knowledgable people I've ever met may have never finished high school! One guy (he's in his 80's now) dropped out in grade 8 to work the family farm.

However from a business / HR perspective, it's a far safer bet to go with the university (or college) educated work force even, if that education has nothing to do with the field of work they're in. I'm sure you'll find that Air Canada is looking for a degree in addition to other (flying) requirements.

DLB · Post by **DLB** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:19 am

The Air Florida guys were always out in the parking lot smoking during Icing 101.

767 · Post by **767** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:44 pm

the reason im not attending the subsidized colleges is becuase most of them need you to pass their courses in the first semseter in order to move on to the next semester, otherwise u get kicked out and i believe you cant go back for a second chance. and also i never liked high school and didnt really concentrate on my high school studies that much. i can understand that their method of slashing out applicants without uni degrees makes their job easier when they got so many applicants with a small amount of jobs. for that guy in this thread that was telling me that im gonna go on avcanada later and look like a retard, maybe you can go fly instead of sitting in front of ur computer and telling others what to do. anyways, not gonna complain about that here. im thinking about going overseas after finshing the program at BFC, there is a big demand right now for pilots in asia from what i know, its just one of my backup plans. hopefully that will work out. anyways guys, thanks for your advice, only the nice ones, and the bad ones, i hope i never sit with you in the right seat.

... · Post by **...** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:52 am

djshan wrote:i dont undertand, we have to spend like 40,000 bux to fly for just 200 hours and on top of that air canada wants you to go to "art and dance" college before u submit ur application. what the hell is up with that? i i used to skip my classes in high school and go sit in the library to read the private pilot manual. i can understand that you need alot of flying time, which makes sense. going to art college to fly, like wtf?? ive only finsihed high school and im gonna do the proffessional pilot diploma program in brampton, ont, and i have to pay almost 50 thousand dollars for that. now my question is, do i still have to go to art/science etc. college???

http://www.guidetoonlineschools.com/?so ... university

work smarter...not harder..hire a punk ass Xbox playin' kid to do the work for ya...

2low · Post by **2low** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:13 am

Anti Ice-----ONF

SittinPretty · Post by **SittinPretty** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 7:33 am

Wow! Some of us actually worked hard for four years to gain a Bachelor of Science degree. I don't remember dance or art class being part of the curriculum. The military actually prefers when their flying officers pursue continuing education. What a concept: self improvement and further education.
Flying is not the only subject in the world. Most employers would prefer someone with knowledge in more than one area. They assume that you have a good understanding of how to fly an aircraft. They want more than that. You don't need a PHd in aeronautical engineering. This isn't NASA. If I was in HR I would always choose the person with more education. Most people work very hard for those credentials, and they benefit tremendously.

... · Post by **...** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:06 am

SittinPretty wrote:Wow! Some of us actually worked hard for four years to gain a Bachelor of Science degree. I don't remember dance or art class being part of the curriculum. The military actually prefers when their flying officers pursue continuing education. What a concept: self improvement and further education.
Flying is not the only subject in the world. Most employers would prefer someone with knowledge in more than one area. They assume that you have a good understanding of how to fly an aircraft. They want more than that. You don't need a PHd in aeronautical engineering. This isn't NASA. If I was in HR I would always choose the person with more education. Most people work very hard for those credentials, and they benefit tremendously.

That's a great contribution to this forum...please continue to contribute.

In the past to get even looked at for AC you needed 5000TT and a BA and a very good internal reference. It seems the trend of AC's hireing spree this time (in many many years) has been younger kids in their mid to late 20's. I don't know too many kids in their mid to late tweenties with University degree and 5000 hours. However...the minimum to get on at AC now a days is 1000 hours and a BA as per their ad.

Gosh...if I knew that...not only would I have got a BA...I'd be on my way to getting my PhD's right about now, and, would have bought all 1000 hours in a local ma & pa flight school's Cessna 140.

IMHO, people that are either too experienced or to 'unmedgucated' for AC are only really victims of timing and being born in the wrong decade. Not because they didn't want to head to University.

However...I wish the best to everyone that wants AC as their end goal.

These times are the best we have EVER seen...in the past 25 years.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:17 am

SittinPretty wrote:Wow! Some of us actually worked hard for four years to gain a Bachelor of Science degree. I don't remember dance or art class being part of the curriculum. The military actually prefers when their flying officers pursue continuing education. What a concept: self improvement and further education.

At one time a degree in science or engineering was given far more "weight" when it came to hiring, than a degree in the arts.

And speaking of the military (I don't know if this is still the case), if all you had was a bachelors degree you would hit a sort of glass ceiling at Captain (Lt. Navy). It was rare to get a promotion to Major or above without a masters degree. I think this was actually a formal policy in the USAF, but the CAF did follow it as an unwritten rule too.

TopperHarley · Post by **TopperHarley** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:52 am

djshan wrote: anyways, not gonna complain about that here. im thinking about going overseas after finshing the program at BFC, there is a big demand right now for pilots in asia from what i know, its just one of my backup plans. hopefully that will work out.

Well, thats not entirely true. There may be a demand for pilots, but it's for experienced pilots (one's with type ratings and many hours on type). Go venture over to the international forums at pprune.org, and you will find that it's not so easy to find work overseas as a 250 hour pilot.

Also, you think getting a degree is costly, wait until you find out how much it costs to convert your Canadian licenses to JAA

767 · Post by **767** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 1:36 am

once again thanks folks. i was also wondering what if you have a proffessional job, such as a manager for any company besides aviation, and just a high school diploma, do you guys think that will be the same as getting a uni degree? im just curious. and speaking of overseas, i believe its easier if you have contacts that work in airlines/flight schools, etc. in this case, i have some contacts.

Brewguy · Post by **Brewguy** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:33 am

djshan wrote:once again thanks folks. i was also wondering what if you have a proffessional job, such as a manager for any company besides aviation, and just a high school diploma, do you guys think that will be the same as getting a uni degree? im just curious. and speaking of overseas, i believe its easier if you have contacts that work in airlines/flight schools, etc. in this case, i have some contacts.

In a word, "No".

I went straight into the workforce from high school. It wasn't because I was bad at school (I applied for and was accepted to RMC / Reg force CF) - but was just because "life's circumstances" made me reconsider leaving home at that time. Over the span of a few years I worked my way upto various middle / senior management positions. And have worked in management since.

Now, I'm currently looking to make another career move, and am still running into the issue of not having a degree. This is despite having many years of management level experience, and glowing recommendations from former employers. I finally decided to get a degree, and am studying part-time. Showing that I've gone back to school helps, but is not the same as already having completed it.

Sorry if this isn't the answer you were looking for - but it's reality ... one of the cold, hard facts of life. In today's job market, a university degree will help you, and not having one will hurt you. The only exception to this is in some of the trades, where you need college + apprenticeship. In which case college will help you, and not having it will hurt you.

Now if school really, really isn't your thing - don't go and get overly depressed about it. Lots of people make it in this world without post secondary education. But just know that it will be far more difficult to find that "good job", and if you should happen to find yourself "between jobs" - plan on being there a bit longer.

Again, formal education helps, but is not a magic pill. You can succeed without it; and can fall flat on your ass with it.
But it does make it easier to get your foot in the door.

767 · Post by **767** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:26 pm

nblythin wrote:
djshan wrote:once again thanks folks. i was also wondering what if you have a proffessional job, such as a manager for any company besides aviation, and just a high school diploma, do you guys think that will be the same as getting a uni degree? im just curious. and speaking of overseas, i believe its easier if you have contacts that work in airlines/flight schools, etc. in this case, i have some contacts.
In a word, "No".

I went straight into the workforce from high school. It wasn't because I was bad at school (I applied for and was accepted to RMC / Reg force CF) - but was just because "life's circumstances" made me reconsider leaving home at that time. Over the span of a few years I worked my way upto various middle / senior management positions. And have worked in management since.

Now, I'm currently looking to make another career move, and am still running into the issue of not having a degree. This is despite having many years of management level experience, and glowing recommendations from former employers. I finally decided to get a degree, and am studying part-time. Showing that I've gone back to school helps, but is not the same as already having completed it.

Sorry if this isn't the answer you were looking for - but it's reality ... one of the cold, hard facts of life. In today's job market, a university degree will help you, and not having one will hurt you. The only exception to this is in some of the trades, where you need college + apprenticeship. In which case college will help you, and not having it will hurt you.

Now if school really, really isn't your thing - don't go and get overly depressed about it. Lots of people make it in this world without post secondary education. But just know that it will be far more difficult to find that "good job", and if you should happen to find yourself "between jobs" - plan on being there a bit longer.

Again, formal education helps, but is not a magic pill. You can succeed without it; and can fall flat on your ass with it.
But it does make it easier to get your foot in the door.

i understand what u mean, hopefully i will be lucky one day, lol. i dont plan on giving up as of yet, i dont think i will ever give up. in my opinion, i think airlines should consider your flying time and your personlaity (not including education) to be the most important, before they look at ur peice of paper that has "degree" printed on it. ah well this is today's world.

C-GWTF · Post by **C-GWTF** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:33 am

To be honest you can play by their rules or not, it is as simple as that. You either have what they want or you do not.

McDonalds requires a high school diploma. You think have one makes you an expert at flipping burgers? No!

Juggs · Post by **Juggs** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:35 pm

i understand what u mean, hopefully i will be lucky one day, lol. i dont plan on giving up as of yet, i dont think i will ever give up. in my opinion, i think airlines should consider your flying time and your personlaity (not including education) to be the most important, before they look at ur peice of paper that has "degree" printed on it. ah well this is today's world. Sad

Can you learn how to spell and use proper grammar? If you want someone to take you seriously, start capitalizing "i" when it is used as a pronoun, write out "you" instead of using u, learn how to spell and quit using lol.

Don't like the fact that airlines want a degree? Take ball. Go home. Simple as that. When there are hundreds of people lined up you can afford to be picky. If you can't check the degree box you're that much further behind.

Grow up before you start flying airplanes. This profession has already been decimated by people offering to work for free, you don't need to contribute to the demise too.

av8tor_assrope · Post by **av8tor_assrope** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:23 pm

it's the spehling n' gramarr powlice.........juggs stop being anal..LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?

whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?

Re: whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?

Re: whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?

Re: whats with airlines requiring 4 year uni degrees?