Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Rwy17
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:53 am

Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by Rwy17 »

Has anyone ever dealt with Civil Aviation Medicine?

I just submitted a report of some serious care that I got recently that as per my CAME, I unfortunately need to wait for approval to fly again.

Does anyone know how long it takes for them to review files?
---------- ADS -----------
 
RatherBeFlying
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 683
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:27 am
Location: Toronto

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by RatherBeFlying »

It took TC four months in 2020 to process a downgrade from 1 to 3.

Coming up to three months for my last renewal that my AME happily stamped Fit.

If you have cataract surgery coming up sometime in the future schedule it in the fall if you want to be cleared by TC to fly in the spring.
---------- ADS -----------
 
prop2jet
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:50 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by prop2jet »

Depends on the region. On average it is taking 12 to 15 months to get a new "sticker" from TC. Communication with TC is virtually non existent.
---------- ADS -----------
 
WellThatAgedWell
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:38 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by WellThatAgedWell »

prop2jet wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:11 am Depends on the region. On average it is taking 12 to 15 months to get a new "sticker" from TC. Communication with TC is virtually non existent.
How ridiculously incompetent. Our government thinks it’s okay to just take away 3 percent of someone’s available working years because they can’t get their shit together and stamp some paper.

They would be incompetent if it took 2 months, now they have just completely fallen off the cliff into the abyss. Where can I get my FuckTC sticker?
---------- ADS -----------
 
Two years of posts that aged like a fine cheddar.
User avatar
AirFrame
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2610
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:27 pm
Location: Sidney, BC
Contact:

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by AirFrame »

Call once a month and ask how it's going.
---------- ADS -----------
 
co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4562
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by co-joe »

My experience was that some regions actually answer the phone and return calls, others...Im looking at you Ontario, will never ever call you back. Sometimes you can get an answer through a region you dont even live in.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
sendymcsendyface
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:53 pm

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by sendymcsendyface »

Renewing my CAT 1, after taking a year off of flying to treat some mental health issues. CAME told me it was gonna be 15 months to get cleared, and my medical is probably gonna restricted to dual-pilot a/c only. Tell me, how am I supposed to finish my CPL/work, while only being allowed to fly dual pilot aircraft. By the time my medical gets approved (if it does), I'm gonna be done my treatment/off medication, and am gonna have to jump through the hoops again before I can even think of flying. What a gong show.
---------- ADS -----------
 
hithere
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 520
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 8:05 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by hithere »

What did he mean by 15 months. Is this what he figures it will take for your file to make its way through the current backlog at the AMRB(aviation medical review board) ? If you took SSRI medication for your issues and have now stopped taking them, you only need to be asymptomatic for 6 months after cessation. If you are still on medication, then as long as you are stabilized and asymptomatic then the year that has passed is enough. There is usually leniancy given to student pilots to finish licences even with resticted medicals( ie as long as you are just building PIC time to complete you CPL then the restriction doesnt apply or as long as you have a "safety pilot(ie a buddy that has a PPL that can ride shotgun with you) then you are good to go. What TC wants to avoid is you flying a Navajo or something single pilot IFR with 8 pax on board
---------- ADS -----------
 
sullecpt
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by sullecpt »

When you call TC and nobody answers, use the pay a bill option. I waited a very long time once dealing with an issue, calling every day for weeks on end without any response. Once I dialed the option to "pay" them I was quick to get a voice on the other end. That one person helped me and got my case moving, and it was all done in days.

This is the state of TC.
---------- ADS -----------
 
sullecpt
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:10 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by sullecpt »

Also, you can find direct contact details to folks at TC here by following the menus and selection the region. Dont use the generic numbers, go direct to the folks desks.

http://www.goc411.ca/en/Employees/Index ... ou%3dTC-TC
---------- ADS -----------
 
ICUP
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:43 pm

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by ICUP »

This backlog that we have been experiencing is leading pilots to 'hide' conditions to their respective CAMEs just to avoid the burden of dealing with lengthy back and forth emails, out-of-pocket medical appointments and most importantly the risk of temporarily losing their medical waiting for TC to get their act together.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by PilotDAR »

My recent experience with TC Medical was, well... it was.... Without going into details, I had it right all the way along, they chased errant ideas about my condition without foundation. "gee, 'sounds like you should have been injured more than the reports say, something must be missing..." Well, no, I just was not as badly hurt as you're guessing that I could have been! Be happy for me! It got it figured, after I made myself the medical records expert, and relived some of the pain by reading the details of how I was dented.

My very quick advice is that if you ever think that you'll need to deal with TC Medical, keep a copy of the records now, it'll be a lot easier than looking backward for it four and a half years later! Awesome super thanks to a medical records clerk at a Toronto hospital, who went above and beyond over the top to find what I needed, and get it to me quickly. Do you know that eight days in ICU, including three emergency surgeries = 782 pages of medical records? I had no idea! $0.25 per page if you want them copied ('sounds fair). She found me the 15 pages which really counted in amongst all that. (Something nice is headed her way!)

Anyway, credit where credit is due, once the TC Doctor finally agreed that I never was medically deficient as he had assumed I "should have been", he notified me that the temporary restriction he'd placed on my medical (four years after my return to flying with a valid CAT 1) was now removed, Personnel Licensing would send me new stickers in a week or two.

Well that was yesterday. Bright and early this morning from Personnel Licensing, an email: "stickers were printed and in the mail, would I like temporary pages by email?" Well... if it's not too much trouble yes please, but not vital.... Five minutes later, temporary pages by email!

Personnel Licensing 100%!!!, Medical, well..... just... doing.... their.... job... I guess....
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by photofly »

PilotDAR wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 5:43 pm. Do you know that eight days in ICU, including three emergency surgeries = 782 pages of medical records? I had no idea! $0.25 per page if you want them copied ('sounds fair)...
There’s also a maximum they can charge, regardless of how many pages, and you’re entitled to read the records for free, with the Health Information Custodian obliged to provide facilities and access. Also many reputable health organizations will waive the charges for genuine applicants.

The Privacy Commissioner of Ontario is very strict that unreasonably large charges are not an impediment to people having full access to their own health records.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
inthomerker
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:36 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by inthomerker »

Six months after passing a kidney stone I reported it on my CAT1. The CAME hardly raised an eyebrow on it - simply asked if I had any reoccurrence since; and since there was not he stamped my book and we were done. Four months later TC Medical in Ottawa sends me a nasty-gram demanding a CT scan and the opinion of a urologist. They never got either from me. I had my family doc send them a PFO outlining that a few days after passing the stone an ultra-sound was negative, there had been no reoccurrence, and thus TC's request for referral to a urologist and a CT scan was illogical an unwarranted burned on the heath care system. Seemed to work for me.

Since it may not work in every case and for everybody, I'll add that I was getting ready to submit an appeal to the Transportation Appeal Tribunal of Canada (https://www.tatc.gc.ca/en/home.html). As well as to submit a SECURITAS report (securitas@bst-tsb.gc.ca) to the TSB, to give them a data point of TC creating the unsafe situation - manufacturing an environment when I, or others, felt compelled to hide medical issues.

~I.H.W.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
PilotDAR
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4053
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2012 6:46 pm
Location: Near CNJ4 Orillia, Ontario

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by PilotDAR »

There’s also a maximum they can charge, regardless of how many pages,
I entirely accept the appropriateness of a charge to produce a copy, it is a cost to the hospital! That said, the hospital records lady went above and beyond to make my life simple and no cost in that respect, I have nothing but happy thoughts about that hospital in all regards. It was the requirement that I dig back into those records years after my recovery, and return to flying, with zero health issues in the mean time, and maintaining my CAT 1 throughout, which I found puzzling and wasteful on TC's part.
---------- ADS -----------
 
benjamini1000
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:25 pm

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by benjamini1000 »

So I have been reading this thread and would like to ask some relevant questions. First a bit of context.

I am of relatively standard normal health with two specific exceptions. I was diagnosed temporarily by my GP with an episode of depression (it was minor and there were no relevant danger to myself or others) this was about a year ago and I was prescribed an SSRI to cope which I have been off for over 6 months as I no longer need it. I am also fully diagnosed with ADHD which I was prescribed meds for specifically 'AS NEEDED' (while I was in university) which I have not needed or taken in well over 6 months. I am new to the Aviation community and am currently looking to acquire my PPL.

When I spoke to a CAME, the guy was unbelievably condescending and he found it necessary to twist my words to make it seem like I need my meds but refuse to take them. To be clear, I have received a letter from my GP specifying that I no longer require my meds, That I am of sound mind, and I have not needed my medication for over 6 months.

That letter is being forwarded to TC to add to my file as I wait for my Medical Certification.

Question 1. What is the likelihood I would be rejected from getting my Cat 1 certificate due to the situation I've described? If its High, What can I do (that isn't unreasonably expensive) to reduce the risk?

Question 2. Because I have an existing condition, How do I acquire my Cat 4 certificate? Do I submit it through the normal channels alongside my letter from my GP? Do I need to speak to a CAME? (When I asked this to the CAME I met with, he said he wouldn't sign off on my Cat 4 declaration because of my existing conditions.)

Question 3. If I am not eligible for a Cat 1, will the review board automatically consider me for a cat3? or do I need to reapply once I hear back?

To be clear, I can confidently say that I have not had a depression episode in over 6 months nor have I needed medication in that period, It was a clear one time occurrence.
As for my ADHD, I am fully able to function in society without severe challenges outside of an educational setting. I have never had difficulty operating a vehicle nor have I had any real world challenges that would make me unfit to fly an aircraft. I know its the duty of the CAME to keep the skies safe yet there is no real reason I should be dismissed from my conditions aside from potential arbitrary rules.
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by photofly »

I can answer the question about a category 4 medical: you don’t qualify for one, and can’t get one. You can apply instead for a category 3 medical, for which your CAME can examine you, and which the TC Regional Aviation Medical Officer (RAMO) will have to approve (as they do for every cat 3 medical.)

If you’re rejected for a category 1 (or 3) medical TC will write you a formal “refusal to issue” letter, which outlines your legal recourse to appeal. (It’s a statutory requirement they tell you about the appeal process.) The appeal will be to the Transportaion Appeal Tribunal of Canada. It will take a couple of years, and if your medical is denied because of a medical condition, your appeal will not be successful: the tribunal will not overrule the minister’s decision.

You should probably apply for a category 3 medical, it’s your best chance of getting to fly.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
benjamini1000
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:25 pm

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by benjamini1000 »

So to clarify your answer, I am not eligible for a cat 4 medical and will have to wait the regular timeline.

Is it unlikely that I will be approved for my cat 1? If so, why?

If I am rejected, am I able to apply again if my conditions have changed?

I’ve already applied for my cat 1. Can I have an application for my cat 3 open at the same time as my application for my cat1? Can I convert my existing application to a cat 3?
---------- ADS -----------
 
photofly
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 11306
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:47 pm
Location: Hangry and crankypated

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by photofly »

I don't think anyone here can reliably advise about your eligibility for a category 1 medical. I don't see a stream of "I have an ADHD diagnosis and I got my category 1 medical" stories - which doesn't bode well. But someone may come along in time.

At the moment, anecdotal evidence is that Category 1 medicals are taking 1-2 years for approval, and category 3 medicals upwards from six months (and I have seen some category 3 applications taking longer than 2 years, also) in Ontario region. I don't know about other parts of the country.

I don't know how you'd change the category of an application once it's "in the system" - and I don't know of any rule that says you can't have more than one application in process at once. The outcome may depend on which one gets processed first, I very much doubt TC is joined-up enough to connect the two together at any stage (at least until the second one is processed, and they see you already have - or were denied - the other).The problem is that all the rules were written in the before-times, when a category 3 application would be processed within a month, so there wasn't any need for more than one application.
---------- ADS -----------
 
DId you hear the one about the jurisprudence fetishist? He got off on a technicality.
inthomerker
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:36 am

Re: Dealing with Civil Aviation Medicine

Post by inthomerker »

Ben, Photofly is correct - it's doubtful anyone here can reliably (and accurately) advise on eligibility. The best thing you can do it educate yourself on WHY a C.A.M.E. may say/do/inquire/etc about any current or past conditions. Have a look at TP13312 (https://tc.canada.ca/en/aviation/public ... s-tp-13312) - specifically under the headings of SSRIs and Other Policies. Similar to how there's nothing on the boards here about ADHD, there's nothing in TP13312 about it either, thus (i'm guessing) it's likely a factor that the doc has to use their discretion in context with any other risk factors.
Use the details in TP13312 to prepare yourself for some self-advocacy and/or getting your family doc to send any necessary documentation to TC Medical using the wording that will make the medical opinion utmost clear and undisputable.
~IHW
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”