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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

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faculties11
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by faculties11 »

*takes out popcorn from the microwave and beers from the fridge*
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rudder
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by rudder »

Here is the best feature of ALPA - the door is always open to leave.

ALPA(C) did just fine before WJ. It would be fine without WJ. Having said that, I doubt that the majority of WJ pilots share your sentiments.

Your obsession with ‘lawyering’ every argument is pointless. I think in the dictionary beside the word ‘pedantic’ must be your picture.

Your arguments are internal arguments (the WJ family). Go find a democratic solution amongst your own pilots.
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Fanblade
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by Fanblade »

Yikes.

ACPA is FUBAR. There is a current group attempting to go full left on the rudder of the SS ACPA. Very slow indeed.

Rumour I head is ACPA is once again considering ALPA.
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GTFA
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by GTFA »

Yes JS, you are right, you do need help. Pleading to find someone else to do your heavy lifting as a bargaining unit is weak soup. Look within your own ranks to find those with the character, determination and stamina to lead the WJ pilots.

Good luck.

GTFA
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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

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GTFA
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by GTFA »

Dismissed? Nobody was dismissed, they left. Out of the pan, into the fire so to speak. Some pilots probably benefitted from the move but ultimately those pilots who remained after the goldrush was over, could have done so much better. With a cohesive bargaining unit that represented the integrity our passengers and employers expect of us, our Canadian industry would have been a much different place.

GTFA
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aeronauticaldisaster
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by aeronauticaldisaster »

Getting help from ACPA would be the equivalent of a ship going down and sending a SOS but instead of getting a rescue vessel, you get SS Boaty McBoatface. A vessel built in 1995 but still utilizing the latest technology from 1952 including a 6 figure paid radio operator and the highest paid ship boat captain currently employed in the industry. Only problem is this ship captain doesn't sail, he commands from the bridge of his cottage.

Once onboard, you quickly realize the ship is empty because all the sailors work remotely. The technical experience of the vessel gets paid a flat rate no matter what route they pick, so they prefer trolling up and down the St Lawrence during the summer months to avoid the danger of the high seas. They dare not leave port in the winter. Too risky.

You also come to realize there is no room for anyone besides a few of you on the ship despite an expensive operating budget. It has been taken up with expensive computer equipment that has inches of dust from lack of use. But its the least of your worries as you realize the the bilge pump is inoperative and the ship is taking on water. You attempt to fix it only to have some guy coming running up to you in a heavy French accent saying "Tabarnak!! Don't fix it - it's always been broken and we are making no attempt to repair it!"

So you decide to get back on your sinking ship and attempt to plug some holes with your own resources because at least that will give you some pride and honour, something you're not getting on that wreck of a boat
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Ratherbe
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by Ratherbe »

Wow this an example of the pro ALPA knuckle heads at work. Someone raises legitimate flaws in ALPAs performance in Canada then they resort to personal attacks. My experience is when a person retreats to personal attacks is because they don't have a valid argument.
AC pilots and WJ pilots should work more closely together in the labour arena since we have many common concerns and beliefs. Not the same with the lifers at Jazz and the nutters in the US. That's ALPAc - regional pilots overseen by American bullies. No thanks.
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flyinhigh
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by flyinhigh »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:05 pm Dear ACPA: we need help. The members of the WJA/WSW bargaining unit are being represented by ALPA in a manner that is less than acceptable. The seniority rights of bargaining unit members have repeatedly been sold out by ALPA. I know very well the history of ACPA's rabid defense of the seniority rights of its members in the publicly available case law in the Single Employer application by ALPA between Air Canada and the connector airlines and the merger of Air Canada with CAIL.

Our membership cannot access the seniority list of our bargaining unit. The document should exist, according to our CBA, but for various reasons it is not available. There is a pseudo-seniority list, involving all pilots in the WJ group of companies but it has a much relevance as would a common list between Air Canada and Jazz (absent a Single Employer designation)

Unfortunately, our affected members (OTS pilots hired since Encore's start) did not protect their rights when our MEC violated the ALPA Constitution and the Encore pilots were given Super-Seniority in the first CBA and then again with the Pilot Transfer Agreement (PTA). It seems the MEC is intent protecting the interests of the Encore pilots in the upcoming merger negotiations, should they occur. Who will look out for we, the membership of the WSW/WJA and only we the membership?

Is it possible we could create CALPA 2.0? The open season for a raid is in the last 3 months of our contract, IIRC. (October, November, December of 2022). Perhaps SWG pilots and WJA pilots who have joined the United Pilots of WestJet (UPW) along with OTS pilots hired since 2014 (post Encore) would rally under the flag of ACPA (CALPA 2.0)?

Perhaps this is a dumb idea. It is frustrating to watch a union continue to trample on the most basic rights of union members - their seniority. I want to remain a member of ALPA but they refuse to do their job.

JS
Not Happy, easy solution. RUN FOR THE MEC and change the direction. Oh wait, you'd rather bitch about everything else (that was voted in by your peers) than try and a head real change.
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ALPApolicy
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imjustlurking
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by imjustlurking »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:05 pm Dear ACPA: we need help. The members of the WJA/WSW bargaining unit are being represented by ALPA in a manner that is less than acceptable. The seniority rights of bargaining unit members have repeatedly been sold out by ALPA. I know very well the history of ACPA's rabid defense of the seniority rights of its members in the publicly available case law in the Single Employer application by ALPA between Air Canada and the connector airlines and the merger of Air Canada with CAIL.
I am really sorry that you feel that way.
ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:05 pm Our membership cannot access the seniority list of our bargaining unit. The document should exist, according to our CBA, but for various reasons it is not available. There is a pseudo-seniority list, involving all pilots in the WJ group of companies but it has a much relevance as would a common list between Air Canada and Jazz (absent a Single Employer designation)
Your membership has direct access to the seniority list on your EFBs as required by your CBA. Please listen to the people who keep reminding you that the PTA is a letter of agreement that specifies how the list will be administered.
ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:05 pm Unfortunately, our affected members (OTS pilots hired since Encore's start) did not protect their rights when our MEC violated the ALPA Constitution and the Encore pilots were given Super-Seniority in the first CBA and then again with the Pilot Transfer Agreement (PTA). It seems the MEC is intent protecting the interests of the Encore pilots in the upcoming merger negotiations, should they occur. Who will look out for we, the membership of the WSW/WJA and only we the membership?
The PTA went to a vote at WestJet and at Encore. It was ratified.
ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 2:05 pm Is it possible we could create CALPA 2.0? The open season for a raid is in the last 3 months of our contract, IIRC. (October, November, December of 2022). Perhaps SWG pilots and WJA pilots who have joined the United Pilots of WestJet (UPW) along with OTS pilots hired since 2014 (post Encore) would rally under the flag of ACPA (CALPA 2.0)?

Perhaps this is a dumb idea. It is frustrating to watch a union continue to trample on the most basic rights of union members - their seniority. I want to remain a member of ALPA but they refuse to do their job.

JS
Yeah, it's a dumb idea.

You are just below the top 10% of the list, yet you keep arguing that pilots are being screwed over by seniority. None of what you are suggesting will help you, nor will it help anyone else.

With that said, I'd like to remind you look at page 17 of the Code of Business Conduct, "Our Responsibility to Communicate Respectfully." You are using your name while posting remarks about your employer that may be considered disparaging, while at the same time bad-mouthing the people who you would go to if the company decided to terminate you for your comments. You're going full Putin.
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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

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Stu Pidasso
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by Stu Pidasso »

The last thing on earth you want to do JS, is join ACPA. I have been on the MEC at both CALPA and ALPA, done committee work under both and never seen such a useless organization as ACPA.

They have been sleeping with each others sisters for so long it is nothing but an inbred mess.

We need all Canadian Airline Pilots in one union and that is ALPA - NOT ALPA c.
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imjustlurking
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by imjustlurking »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:16 pm
All valid points, lurk, and I would love to address them but bring them on over to the WJ sub forum. The AC pilots have their own issues.

PS, if I lose my job, it was worth the loss. Exposing an injustice has given me a sense of purpose. I feel rejuvenated as I speak out for those too afraid to speak out. And I feel like a lawyer/detective as I try to understand what the PTA does and doesn’t do. The fact that I am the first person out of 2500 pilots to figure out the truth, all on my own, kind of makes me feel that I can still use my brain. At 55, I’ll take it.
I responded directly to your comment, so it was the right place to respond.

With all due respect, if you're the only person who was able "to figure out the truth," are you sure it's really the truth? Either we're all dull as a doorknob or you have come to the wrong conclusion somewhere along the line.
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ALPApolicy
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Post by ALPApolicy »

imjustlurking wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:00 pm...With all due respect, if you're the only person who was able "to figure out the truth," are you sure it's really the truth? Either we're all dull as a doorknob or you have come to the wrong conclusion somewhere along the line.
We can revisit this post another day.

Take care,

John
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cloak
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by cloak »

imjustlurking wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:09 pm With that said, I'd like to remind you look at page 17 of the Code of Business Conduct, "Our Responsibility to Communicate Respectfully." You are using your name while posting remarks about your employer that may be considered disparaging, while at the same time bad-mouthing the people who you would go to if the company decided to terminate you for your comments. You're going full Putin.
Speaking of which, didn’t you just recently equate a WestJet executive to Putin with some unsavoury remarks? The pot calling the kettle…?!!
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imjustlurking
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by imjustlurking »

cloak wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:52 pm
imjustlurking wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:09 pm With that said, I'd like to remind you look at page 17 of the Code of Business Conduct, "Our Responsibility to Communicate Respectfully." You are using your name while posting remarks about your employer that may be considered disparaging, while at the same time bad-mouthing the people who you would go to if the company decided to terminate you for your comments. You're going full Putin.
Speaking of which, didn’t you just recently equate a WestJet executive to Putin with some unsavoury remarks? The pot calling the kettle…?!!
No, I equated the trust I have in their words to the trust I have in Putin's words. The difference here is that I don't use my name on this forum.
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cloak
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by cloak »

imjustlurking wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 7:41 pm
cloak wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:52 pm
imjustlurking wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 2:09 pm With that said, I'd like to remind you look at page 17 of the Code of Business Conduct, "Our Responsibility to Communicate Respectfully." You are using your name while posting remarks about your employer that may be considered disparaging, while at the same time bad-mouthing the people who you would go to if the company decided to terminate you for your comments. You're going full Putin.
Speaking of which, didn’t you just recently equate a WestJet executive to Putin with some unsavoury remarks? The pot calling the kettle…?!!
No, I equated the trust I have in their words to the trust I have in Putin's words. The difference here is that I don't use my name on this forum.
So it’s anonymity that justifies it?!! Wow!
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flyinhigh
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Re: Could/Would ACPA represent WJA pilots?

Post by flyinhigh »

ALPApolicy wrote: Sat Mar 19, 2022 11:55 am You can’t run for the MEC.
Absolutely you can. Look at how ALPA runs. When an LEC position comes up, run for it and do a good job, than when something comes up on the MEC you put your name forward and let you're COLLEAGUES determine if you are the chosen one.

If you cannot run for these types of positions that how do they get filled?

It literally wouldn't matter what ALPA, CALPA, or ACPA do because you have had such a distain for the unions since day one that your mind has been made up. Hell you finally took the time to realize how the new PTA works (that's been in effect for what 2.5 years) and are now dropping this ACPA crap. I don't work for WJ anymore, yet I know full well how it is intended to work.
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