China Eastern 737 down

[boeingboy]

A China Eastern 737 just crashed into a mountainside in southern China with 123 passengers and 9 crew. Reports say it's a 2015 737-800, although that information is currently being reported as being taken from Flightradar24 and not official sources. Flightradar is usually pretty accurate which I hope is the case (it being an -800). It's being reported that it lost speed rapidly and then entered a steep dive.

RIP to all

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/of ... li=AAggNb9

[indieadventurer]

Some videos out now of what appears to be an almost nosedive into the ground. Absolutely terrible.

A catastrophic structural failure of some flight control or an intentional action both come to mind as possibilities.

Adsb data showed a -30,000 fpm decent.

[Donald]

china_eastern_b738_b-1791_guangzhou_220321_1.jpg (56.21 KiB) Viewed 6673 times

[digits_]

Some videos out now of what appears to be an almost nosedive into the ground. Absolutely terrible.

A catastrophic structural failure of some flight control or an intentional action both come to mind as possibilities.

Adsb data showed a -30,000 fpm decent.

Would you be able to do this intentionally in a 737?

Seems unlikely the plane wouldn't want to pull up as the speed increases. If the goal would be to intentionally crash, it is more likely to see something like a 60 degree flight path downwards instead of 90. 60 degrees feels like 90 the first few times you do it.

[Inverted2]

Thank goodness it wasn’t another MAX! Even if it was a flight control problem there’s usually some oscillating first, along with a mayday call. That thing went completely straight down. Hoping it’s not another Germanwings.

[Inverted2]

Also in that photo it looks like the vertical stab is gone.

[Tolip]

Does anyone else get a cover up vibe here? I've never herd of a -800 getting into a nosedive situation like this. However, this does give a very eerily similar vibe to the previous Max accidents. Thinking of what the global implications would be world wide if this was a max, it is not very crazy to think they would delay posting that information as long as possible. As stated above it has not yet been verified as a -800 yet.

I know its early days in the investigation and it's not good to speculate, but just wondering if the -800 has ever had a history of an accident like this. And what any other 737 pilots thoughts are.

Sad sad news. RIP to all.

[digits_]

Does anyone else get a cover up vibe here? I've never herd of a -800 getting into a nosedive situation like this. However, this does give a very eerily similar vibe to the previous Max accidents. Thinking of what the global implications would be world wide if this was a max, it is not very crazy to think they would delay posting that information as long as possible. As stated above it has not yet been verified as a -800 yet.

I know its early days in the investigation and it's not good to speculate, but just wondering if the -800 has ever had a history of an accident like this. And what any other 737 pilots thoughts are.

Sad sad news. RIP to all.

No.


https://pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carri ... n-Airlines
China Eastern doesn't seem to operate any 737 MAX / 737-8 / 737-10

[Tolip]

Does anyone else get a cover up vibe here? I've never herd of a -800 getting into a nosedive situation like this. However, this does give a very eerily similar vibe to the previous Max accidents. Thinking of what the global implications would be world wide if this was a max, it is not very crazy to think they would delay posting that information as long as possible. As stated above it has not yet been verified as a -800 yet.

I know its early days in the investigation and it's not good to speculate, but just wondering if the -800 has ever had a history of an accident like this. And what any other 737 pilots thoughts are.

Sad sad news. RIP to all.

No.


https://pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carri ... n-Airlines
China Eastern doesn't seem to operate any 737 MAX / 737-8 / 737-10

I hear you, an unlikely situation for sure. It's just the manner in which the plane crashed, sudden nose down at 30,000 feet straight into the ground. Really only heard of such an accident with the max aircraft. Its tuff to get an accurate fleet scope from China eastern, but they operate over a hundred 737-800s, and from what I have read on recent news clips, about 14 Max's.

[200hr Wonder]

Is the MAX even approved in China again? I don’t think so.

[Tolip]

Is the MAX even approved in China again? I don’t think so.

They were the last country to approve it, but yes. It is approved since last last year

[digits_]

Does anyone else get a cover up vibe here? I've never herd of a -800 getting into a nosedive situation like this. However, this does give a very eerily similar vibe to the previous Max accidents. Thinking of what the global implications would be world wide if this was a max, it is not very crazy to think they would delay posting that information as long as possible. As stated above it has not yet been verified as a -800 yet.

I know its early days in the investigation and it's not good to speculate, but just wondering if the -800 has ever had a history of an accident like this. And what any other 737 pilots thoughts are.

Sad sad news. RIP to all.

No.


https://pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carri ... n-Airlines
China Eastern doesn't seem to operate any 737 MAX / 737-8 / 737-10

I hear you, an unlikely situation for sure. It's just the manner in which the plane crashed, sudden nose down at 30,000 feet straight into the ground. Really only heard of such an accident with the max aircraft. Its tuff to get an accurate fleet scope from China eastern, but they operate over a hundred 737-800s, and from what I have read on recent news clips, about 14 Max's.

The max aircraft didn't go vertical. They descended steeply but not 90 degrees. It's very hard to get an airplane to go down a steady 90 degree line.

Even if this plane lost its tail, I'd be really surprised it would go straight down. It's more something you would expect if it would lose both its wings.

[cncpc]

Also in that photo it looks like the vertical stab is gone.

Well spotted. Maybe the whole back end?

[Tolip]

No.


https://pilotcareercentre.com/Air-Carri ... n-Airlines
China Eastern doesn't seem to operate any 737 MAX / 737-8 / 737-10

I hear you, an unlikely situation for sure. It's just the manner in which the plane crashed, sudden nose down at 30,000 feet straight into the ground. Really only heard of such an accident with the max aircraft. Its tuff to get an accurate fleet scope from China eastern, but they operate over a hundred 737-800s, and from what I have read on recent news clips, about 14 Max's.

The max aircraft didn't go vertical. They descended steeply but not 90 degrees. It's very hard to get an airplane to go down a steady 90 degree line.

Even if this plane lost its tail, I'd be really surprised it would go straight down. It's more something you would expect if it would lose both its wings.

Do we have official readings of rate\angle to make this comparison, or just using that blurry picture? The thing that doesby support structural failure in this case is that flight radar shows the plane leveling off from the decent. Going back into a climb and then back into another decent. Which again, rings very familiar to the previous max crashes

[Tolip]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -t-the-max

[DanWEC]

Jesus. A dive, short climb, then another dive all the way down. If there was an initial catastrophic structural failure of any kind that really makes a puzzle of how it could climb again unless some really nasty things were happening with the controls. Awful.

[goldeneagle]

This one reminds me of the Alaska Air diesel 9 (md80) off the coast of California. That one was a busted jack screw on the horizonal stab.

The video that earlier screenshot came from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIYBtEi6iE

[Tolip]

This one reminds me of the Alaska Air diesel 9 (md80) off the coast of California. That one was a busted jack screw on the horizonal stab.

The video that earlier screenshot came from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIYBtEi6iE

I would agree with you on that. But flight radar shows the plane leveled off and managed to climb about a thousand feet before continuing into another nose dive. I think just that there almost rules out critical aircraft failure

[jpilot77]

This one reminds me of the Alaska Air diesel 9 (md80) off the coast of California. That one was a busted jack screw on the horizonal stab.

The video that earlier screenshot came from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpIYBtEi6iE

I would agree with you on that. But flight radar shows the plane leveled off and managed to climb about a thousand feet before continuing into another nose dive. I think just that there almost rules out critical aircraft failure

The Alaska Air crash stopped the dive momentarily as well before diving again.

[Eric Janson]

I would agree with you on that. But flight radar shows the plane leveled off and managed to climb about a thousand feet before continuing into another nose dive. I think just that there almost rules out critical aircraft failure

Not necessarily. The aircraft could have been overstressed pulling out of the initial upset resulting in structural failure resulting in the final uncontrolled dive.

All speculation at this point.

[boeingboy]

I dont know where this info is coming from about a short climb - I find that impossible.

I had a look at the flight radar data and it shows no climb. Diving near vertical is going to very quickly exceed VNE and shortly thereafter the vertical and horizontal stabs are going to come off the airplane. Even if it managed to stay in one piece - in order to reverse a dive like that would take time and the G forces involved would itself tear the plane apart....nevermind it having to reverse again back into a dive, and then all that in under 2 min....not going to happen.

Silk air 185 was a 737-300 a number of years ago - it was ruled a suicide....but in testing you needed full forward control and full nose down trim and the airplane still wanted to recover itself. It was very difficult to hold a 60 degree nose down attitude. In that accident - the airplane ripped itself apart at about 10000 feet.

I saw a dash cam video of this latest one where it look 60 - 70 degrees nose down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasf ... _by_china/

[Tolip]

I would agree with you on that. But flight radar shows the plane leveled off and managed to climb about a thousand feet before continuing into another nose dive. I think just that there almost rules out critical aircraft failure

Not necessarily. The aircraft could have been overstressed pulling out of the initial upset resulting in structural failure resulting in the final uncontrolled dive.

All speculation at this point.

100 percent. All just speculation, you guys are right. You can never eliminate anything in these situations, but I do think that the level off and subsequent climb are good initial indication it was something outside of critical aircraft failure that caused the crash. But that does kinda get you thinking, what else could it be? It was an insane decent from what I saw in the video posted above

[boeingboy]

No dive recovery...the speed apparently decreased momentarily at 6500 feet and then climbed back - so maybe some reporter confused the 2 scales. It was probably a glitch in the data due to speed, decent, and terrain.


Absolutely no climb or recovery. From 9000 feet to the ground in just under 20 seconds.

Speed:
06:22:16 - 455kts......9000 feet
06:22:27 - 413 kts.....6500 feet
06:22:31 - 442 kts.....4000 feet
06:22:35 - 376kts......3200 feet - - - end of data.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flig ... 5#2b367bc1

[Tolip]

I dont know where this info is coming from about a short climb - I find that impossible.

I had a look at the flight radar data and it shows no climb. Diving near vertical is going to very quickly exceed VNE and shortly thereafter the vertical and horizontal stabs are going to come off the airplane. Even if it managed to stay in one piece - in order to reverse a dive like that would take time and the G forces involved would itself tear the plane apart....nevermind it having to reverse again back into a dive, and then all that in under 2 min....not going to happen.

Silk air 185 was a 737-300 a number of years ago - it was ruled a suicide....but in testing you needed full forward control and full nose down trim and the airplane still wanted to recover itself. It was very difficult to hold a 60 degree nose down attitude. In that accident - the airplane ripped itself apart at about 10000 feet.

I saw a dash cam video of this latest one where it look 60 - 70 degrees nose down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasf ... _by_china/

It's all spotty information that is comming out, probably none of it should be trusted yet at this point. Agreed there. But the bit about the level off and climb came from a Bloomberg article posted earlier today. I linked it above

[boeingboy]

It's all spotty information that is comming out, probably none of it should be trusted yet at this point. Agreed there. But the bit about the level off and climb came from a Bloomberg article posted earlier today. I linked it above

Look at my comments and data above yours.