The end of Rouge?

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altiplano
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Re: The end of Rouge?

Post by altiplano »

a220hereicome wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:51 pm
Excellent explanation, thank you.

This will be awesome for WJ and AT.

One other question. When we hand over $25M to ALPA, do we get a break on dues for the first few years? Or is that our initiation fee?
When LWC rouge was forced on ACPA what was used to allow the arbitrator to justify it?

Copy/paste of WJ pay scales for the L319, and TS pay scales for the L767.

If they are better it removes the downward pressure, it actually puts on upward pressure on us, it's easier for our guys to get more.

What are you talking about handing over $25 million to ALPA?

Individual carrier MECs maintain their own accounts and funds for their activities and we would retain all current monies in house for AC Pilots in the event of a merger.

Break on dues? A fraction of a percent of fully tax deductable contributions adds up to maybe $50 take home difference per month for an average member making +/-$200K.

You get what you pay for, unfortunately with ACPA we've been getting less than what we pay for... unless you're hanging out in that swank office with the staff around the Nespresso... oh yeah, the staff are not even there... good thing we have that office.

On top of that the ACPA Constitution allows dues up to 2.1% and they won't hesitate to put them there to continue to pay their tenured staff who won't reveal their salaries. Like seriously, what does ACPA spend money on? Staff and offices... what have they actually done for AC Pilots? Jack shît.

No industry wawcon comparison for a decade
Failed lobbyist efforts on critical files
Concessionary contracts
Lost scope
Lost pay rates
C-scale
F-scale
4 year flat pay
Lost DB pension
Lost reserve QOL
Continuing scheduling problems -
When did we get APRIL blocks? March 28?
No unity
No membership understanding of complicated contracts
The scheduling 'QRH' is 60 fücking pages and inaccurate
Decades of stolen per diems
A company that rules us by bulletin and an association that says 'oh well'
It goes on and on...

ACPA don't want to do anything, they are just there...


Of ALPA dues, the amount that actually goes to the mothership is less than our typical ACPA dues - special short term dues reductions aside, and we would get a whole fücking lot more for it in the ALPA financial, bargaining, legal, and analytical resources, because we get jack shït from ACPA for our money as is. The rest of the ALPA dues stay local, and individual MECs can choose to put part of that back to the membership.

Maybe because we will have our $25million in the bank, we can choose to draw that down as needed and put maximum dues back to the membership... that alone will cover the difference in dues for years.

We can't keep carrying down the ACPA track... Our Association's own consultants told us that such drastic overhauls were needed to be implemented immediately, and that ot would be such a huge challenge that the Assocation was basically a write off, they recommended to join a union with its shît together. What did the Union do? Consolidate power in the hands of even fewer and make recalls basically impossible. You really can't make that up...

If not ALPA, maybe APA or IPA or SWAPA will take us. Anything but ACPA.
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Re: The end of Rouge?

Post by Old fella »

As members of the travelling public who purchase the fares help us out. How has Rouge been beneficial, what has it done, we are all ears. Heard plenty of complaints, then again everyone bitches about airlines, that’s nothing new. If AC shit canned the whole operation, so what.I kinda doubt it would register with us as we would simply go elsewhere. Just saying.
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Localizer
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Re: The end of Rouge?

Post by Localizer »

altiplano wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:02 am
a220hereicome wrote: Sat Apr 09, 2022 4:51 pm
Excellent explanation, thank you.

This will be awesome for WJ and AT.

One other question. When we hand over $25M to ALPA, do we get a break on dues for the first few years? Or is that our initiation fee?
When LWC rouge was forced on ACPA what was used to allow the arbitrator to justify it?

Copy/paste of WJ pay scales for the L319, and TS pay scales for the L767.

If they are better it removes the downward pressure, it actually puts on upward pressure on us, it's easier for our guys to get more.

What are you talking about handing over $25 million to ALPA?

Individual carrier MECs maintain their own accounts and funds for their activities and we would retain all current monies in house for AC Pilots in the event of a merger.

Break on dues? A fraction of a percent of fully tax deductable contributions adds up to maybe $50 take home difference per month for an average member making +/-$200K.

You get what you pay for, unfortunately with ACPA we've been getting less than what we pay for... unless you're hanging out in that swank office with the staff around the Nespresso... oh yeah, the staff are not even there... good thing we have that office.

On top of that the ACPA Constitution allows dues up to 2.1% and they won't hesitate to put them there to continue to pay their tenured staff who won't reveal their salaries. Like seriously, what does ACPA spend money on? Staff and offices... what have they actually done for AC Pilots? Jack shît.

No industry wawcon comparison for a decade
Failed lobbyist efforts on critical files
Concessionary contracts
Lost scope
Lost pay rates
C-scale
F-scale
4 year flat pay
Lost DB pension
Lost reserve QOL
Continuing scheduling problems -
When did we get APRIL blocks? March 28?
No unity
No membership understanding of complicated contracts
The scheduling 'QRH' is 60 fücking pages and inaccurate
Decades of stolen per diems
A company that rules us by bulletin and an association that says 'oh well'
It goes on and on...

ACPA don't want to do anything, they are just there...


Of ALPA dues, the amount that actually goes to the mothership is less than our typical ACPA dues - special short term dues reductions aside, and we would get a whole fücking lot more for it in the ALPA financial, bargaining, legal, and analytical resources, because we get jack shït from ACPA for our money as is. The rest of the ALPA dues stay local, and individual MECs can choose to put part of that back to the membership.

Maybe because we will have our $25million in the bank, we can choose to draw that down as needed and put maximum dues back to the membership... that alone will cover the difference in dues for years.

We can't keep carrying down the ACPA track... Our Association's own consultants told us that such drastic overhauls were needed to be implemented immediately, and that ot would be such a huge challenge that the Assocation was basically a write off, they recommended to join a union with its shît together. What did the Union do? Consolidate power in the hands of even fewer and make recalls basically impossible. You really can't make that up...

If not ALPA, maybe APA or IPA or SWAPA will take us. Anything but ACPA.
ALPA and Canadian pilots would welcome AC pilots tomorrow .. then we get to work and fix this industry.
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altiplano
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Re: The end of Rouge?

Post by altiplano »

Localizer wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:04 am]
ALPA and Canadian pilots would welcome AC pilots tomorrow .. then we get to work and fix this industry.
We had a good deal on what the merger will look like in '18 that got sewered for various political reasons,

We need that dialogue open again, we need rank and file AC guys hear to hear from ALPA brass on what a merger will look like and what ALPA brings.

We need to dispel notions like:
ALPA' will take AC Pilots $25millon strike fund
All dues go to the US
AC Pilots will be joining "ALPA Canada" not ALPA
Or my favourite... Transat and Jazz pilots will take our jobs
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