Air Canada - again plays dirty.

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:30 pm

From the Globe and Mail:

"Air Canada has obtained a domestic licence to operate an all-cargo service using Canadian aircraft and crew, but only after the Canadian Transportation Agency chastised the airline for concealing information about improperly hiring U.S. planes and staff to do the job.

"It is the manner in which this contravention was dealt with by Air Canada that is inexcusable and reprehensible," the agency ruled.

Air Canada had sworn in an affidavit last May that it hadn't leased American cargo planes, but it hired Virginia-based Gemini Air Cargo in November, 2004, for a major shipment from Toronto to Vancouver. The affidavit accompanied the Montreal-based airline's application for a domestic cargo licence.

Air Canada used Gemini on eight other occasions, but the agency accepted the airline's explanation that those small shipments were inadvertently transferred to Gemini.

Cargojet Income Fund, Canada's main domestic cargo carrier, had complained that Air Canada wasn't abiding by the rules to use Canadian aircraft and crew.

Air Canada spokesman Peter Fitzpatrick said that the airline regrets its failure to keep the agency informed. "There was a breakdown in internal communications on the Nov. 26, 2004, all-cargo flight."

He said no decision has been made on what domestic cargo services Air Canada will introduce.

Cargojet president Ajay Virmani played down the prospect of vigorous domestic cargo competition, saying Mississauga-based Cargojet operates a strong network and has numerous long-term contracts to move goods within Canada."
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ry/?query=

Once again Air Canada will go to any lengths to screw Canadian aviation companies - just because someone might actually make some money at it. I guess it really is easier to ask forgiveness than for permission - since they knew they won't get it in the first place.

"...inadvertently transferred to Gemini" - YEA RIGHT!

So who are they using? I suspect it's cargojet or flightcraft.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:53 pm

This is being discussed in the Air Canada Jazz forum.

wsguy · Post by **wsguy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:58 pm

"Once again Air Canada will go to any lengths to screw Canadian aviation companies - just because someone might actually make some money at it. I guess it really is easier to ask forgiveness than for permission - since they knew they won't get it in the first place.

"...inadvertently transferred to Gemini" - YEA RIGHT!

So who are they using? I suspect it's cargojet or flightcraft."

Not too sure of your connection here.

The issue is using a foreign carrier to operate point to point in Canada... At least I think this is the issue you are bringing attention to?

CargoJet and Kelowna Flight Craft are both Canadian companies... Might of been no problem had AC used those operators as opposed to using an American company.

AC certainly has the right as a Canadian company to participate as a Cargo carrier if they wish to do so. It is the outsourcing to a foreign carrier to compete with Canadian carriers that puts AC at odds with CTA.
Personal thoughts? Rightly so I'ld say. This should not happen. Jobs for Canadians need to be protected... you are not likely to see foreign operators hire Canadian pilots to operate their aircraft because they are flying Canadian routes.... let alone USA routes.

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 10:18 pm

Jaques Strappe:
Sorry - don't know how I missed it there.

wsguy:
Of course AC has the right to fly cargo if they want.
My point is that if there is even the most remote possibility that money can be made by a company - Air Canada seems to screw everyone over. Wether it's slashing prices to where they don't make money to force a smaller carrier out of a certain run or go outside the country for domestic cargo, or whining about Westjet because they are doing well.

Problem is that Cargojet is extreamly well established, well run, and liked by their customers - so they're not going anywhere soon. Meaning AC would actually have to compete. If there was a Canadian company with Large widebody freighters - AC would have tried to go outside the country for those too.

Air Canada didn't want to use a Canadian compny for their cargo because it would possibly strengthen that company and weaken their postion should they decide to persue cargo. AC still doesn't know if or what they want to do in the cargo sector, if they decide to jump in they want to do it big and be the only game in town - putting everyone else out of business. A/C just wants a monopoly on everything out there and if they have to - they will play dirty to get it.

I simply wondered that since they are now running cargo domesticly with a Canadian company - who are they using? There really is only Cargojet and Flightcraft

Cod Father · Post by **Cod Father** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:59 pm

I also see from Air Canada's website that they will begin one stop (YYZ) same plane service from YYT->YMM return using the new Embraers

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:26 am

Boeingboy

Just to play devils advocate, and I am coming with little knowledge of the tender process involved, but what if there wasn't any widebody cargo equipment available in Canada at the time?

I seem to remember that someone had a DC-10F but only for a month or so. I am not defending AC in this matter by any stretch, but how does a company, any company, get mandated to use a Canadian supplier if one meeting your needs at the time, does not exist?

wsguy · Post by **wsguy** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:33 am

Boeing Boy

Understand your thoughts .... Makes me thinkof the plathora of brand names out there to confuse the general public to "compete" against Canada 3000, WestJet, etc..... (Remember Tango, and Zip?) just to name a few. Of course there is the sports charters also....

This a product of deregulation. Carriers can compete.... knock each other out of business... start up with lower costs(read wages) and do it all over again. Good for the customer??? Maybe in the short term... Bad for small companies trying to make a buck and bad for pilots in the industry as far a wages go too I think.

We have a very frustrating industry here in Canada.

BirdDog IV · Post by **BirdDog IV** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:08 am

AC is NOT going Point to Point within Cda.
AC needs MD-11 UPLIFT for the O/S routes.
AC Pilots were consulted and given concessions for this.
777-F's are on the way to AC Cargo soon.
When that happens, say bye-bye to Gemini and World.
Is all above board.
No one is gettings screwed.

ps.
70% of CARGOJETS upper management are X-AC people who quit or were let go.

boeingboy · Post by **boeingboy** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:49 am

Jaques Strappe:
I was saying that IF there was a Canadian company that had the large aircraft capibility (767,747,dc-10) AC would have still tried to not use them. Obviously since there is no lift capacity of that sort here - then they would have to go elsewhere.

If there was a Canadian company with Large widebody freighters - AC would have tried to go outside the country for those too.

phantom:
Maybe you should read through the thread again.

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:04 pm

If there was a Canadian company with Large widebody freighters - AC would have tried to go outside the country for those too.

How do you figure? Are you privy to insider management info or was that what your magic 8 ball told you? It wouldn't surprise me but to my knowledge, that wasn't the case unless, like I said there was some Canadian operated widebody freighter that I didn't know about.

For arguments sake, lets say there was but it was 4 times more expensive? Should AC have been forced to do business with that outfit?

Like I said, I am not defending AC, just playing Devils Advocate.