DEC Posting

[tango308]

What an insult to the pilots who spent their careers at jazz

There's a collective agreement for a reason. Year 1 BOTL is right. They willingly left Jazz, most likely cashing in on a VERY nice early retirement package (say between 100k-400K) and oh yeah, they most likely were on the A scale too with the DB pension. While I appreciate them coming back to help they need to start back where EVERYBODY who resign starts back.

[indieadventurer]

What an insult to the pilots who spent their careers at jazz

There's a collective agreement for a reason. Year 1 BOTL is right. They willingly left Jazz, most likely cashing in on a VERY nice early retirement package (say between 100k-400K) and oh yeah, they most likely were on the A scale too with the DB pension. While I appreciate them coming back to help they need to start back where EVERYBODY who resign starts back.

It’s attitudes like this that help perpetuate the situation that we call Canadian aviation.

We are worth in salary the years of experience we put in and should not have that reduced to 0 when we move or return to a company.

[Tbayer2021]

I think many pilots can't seem to separate seniority with pay. I don't believe anyone is arguing that any pilot joining a company should be senior to those already there for things like vacation and schedule bidding or any other rights and privileges afforded with seniority. But rather that experience should be recognized and paid for accordingly. Meaning the company should be paying these retired guys they're asking to return, whatever YOS they were at when they left at the very least. Yes they will be at the BOTL as far as seniority goes, but experience needs to be recognized when it comes to salary and vacation allotment.

[indieadventurer]

I think many pilots can't seem to separate seniority with pay. I don't believe anyone is arguing that any pilot joining a company should be senior to those already there for things like vacation and schedule bidding or any other rights and privileges afforded with seniority. But rather that experience should be recognized and paid for accordingly. Meaning the company should be paying these retired guys they're asking to return, whatever YOS they were at when they left at the very least. Yes they will be at the BOTL as far as seniority goes, but experience needs to be recognized when it comes to salary and vacation allotment.

+1 exactly

[Tdicommuter]

Nope.

You want pay to go up? Let the company suffer until they decide to bring out the cheque book. Want a retired guy back. Itll be for whatever they can work out. If the union ( rightfully defends YOS ) then the offer will be year 1 pay. I hope the end result is no one returns... Which leads the company to need to renegotiate. That is called leverage. The union can take advantage of the leverage and maybe make some gains for the people who have not retired and have a long career at Jazz.

[Inverted2]

Jazz apparently calling retired CA to return as DEC.

First year CA pay. BOTL.

Thats a joke, right? Why would anyone even consider that???

Divorced and/or out of money?

I have no issues as long as it’s bottom of the list which is only fair.

[rudder]

Jazz apparently calling retired CA to return as DEC.

First year CA pay. BOTL.

Thats a joke, right? Why would anyone even consider that???

Here is a suggestion (applies to EVERYBODY) - get rid of the 2 pay scales in the Jazz CBA. Abolish the ‘post 2015 hire’ pay scale.

Represents at least an acknowledgement that there should be no de facto b scale at Jazz, and that market rates to source ‘qualified’ new-hire pilots (both CA and FO) for YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC are much higher than what is currently being offered.

Result (2022) would be:

CA

1 $95
2 $97
3 $99
4 $102

17 $141

FO

1 $51
2 $57
3 $66
4 $69

12 $88


This would represent a return to a quasi-normal pay standard and pay progression that was in place before the abomination of Contract 2015.

And Jazz recent retirees - if offered DEC/BOTL - should have an option of taking the position on ‘contract’. No benefits. No disability. No pension. No vacation (paid out in cash). Just CPP/EI/Income tax/Union dues as deductions. Retirees don’t need all that other crap. AC Travel status remains as ‘retiree’. Make this option available only if return is time limited (i.e. 12-24 months).

[digits_]

We are worth in salary the years of experience we put in and should not have that reduced to 0 when we move or return to a company.

Are we?

Is there a significant difference between an airline cpt having 10 years experience or 20?
Once you reach a certain experience level, every extra hour only marginally increases your worth to the company.

Salaries should go up very quickly the first few years because additional experience has a significant influence on your worth to the company, but after that, there is no need to keep increasing it (except for inflation of course).

Redesigning that salary graph, so the bulk of the increases happen in the first few years, would actually benefit pilots as a whole, it would make you much more agile to leave a company if they start treating you like crap. But it would require quite a change in the union mindset... And it's something that should happen across all companies.

[tango308]

Jazz apparently calling retired CA to return as DEC.

First year CA pay. BOTL.

Thats a joke, right? Why would anyone even consider that???

Here is a suggestion (applies to EVERYBODY) - get rid of the 2 pay scales in the Jazz CBA. Abolish the ‘post 2015 hire’ pay scale.

Represents at least an acknowledgement that there should be no de facto b scale at Jazz, and that market rates to source ‘qualified’ new-hire pilots (both CA and FO) for YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC are much higher than what is currently being offered.

Result (2022) would be:

CA

1 $95
2 $97
3 $99
4 $102

17 $141

FO

1 $51
2 $57
3 $66
4 $69

12 $88


This would represent a return to a quasi-normal pay standard and pay progression that was in place before the abomination of Contract 2015.

And Jazz recent retirees - if offered DEC/BOTL - should have an option of taking the position on ‘contract’. No benefits. No disability. No pension. No vacation (paid out in cash). Just CPP/EI/Income tax/Union dues as deductions. Retirees don’t need all that other crap. AC Travel status remains as ‘retiree’. Make this option available only if return is time limited (i.e. 12-24 months).

This.

[kiaszceski]

Jazz apparently calling retired CA to return as DEC.

First year CA pay. BOTL.

Thats a joke, right? Why would anyone even consider that???

Here is a suggestion (applies to EVERYBODY) - get rid of the 2 pay scales in the Jazz CBA. Abolish the ‘post 2015 hire’ pay scale.

Represents at least an acknowledgement that there should be no de facto b scale at Jazz, and that market rates to source ‘qualified’ new-hire pilots (both CA and FO) for YYZ/YUL/YVR/YYC are much higher than what is currently being offered.

Result (2022) would be:

CA

1 $95
2 $97
3 $99
4 $102

17 $141

FO

1 $51
2 $57
3 $66
4 $69

12 $88


This would represent a return to a quasi-normal pay standard and pay progression that was in place before the abomination of Contract 2015.

And Jazz recent retirees - if offered DEC/BOTL - should have an option of taking the position on ‘contract’. No benefits. No disability. No pension. No vacation (paid out in cash). Just CPP/EI/Income tax/Union dues as deductions. Retirees don’t need all that other crap. AC Travel status remains as ‘retiree’. Make this option available only if return is time limited (i.e. 12-24 months).

What does the MEC and company think about this?
Are they at least considering it?

[Admiral Benson]

No retiree would come back and do reserve. Unless they are an absolute sucker for punishment

[rudder]

No retiree would come back and do reserve. Unless they are an absolute sucker for punishment

There are 81 YYZ CRJ CA vacancies. They won’t be on reserve. But they won’t be getting some top 25% block either.

Probably a moot point. I can’t think of any that would want to return. Do the math - how much of the extra $100k will get chewed up by higher marginal tax rate and other deductions (if applicable).

This endeavour would require much more thought that simply a phone call with an offer of a ‘new-hire’ DEC position.