Mainline hiring

[fixnfly]

... As discussed upgrades are at 9 years for YYZ and a few years longer for YYC. ...

15 years, 3 months, and 2 days last I heard.

Just curious, how long would it take to transfer from the YYZ base to YYC as a first officer?

[rudder]

... As discussed upgrades are at 9 years for YYZ and a few years longer for YYC. ...

15 years, 3 months, and 2 days last I heard.

Honest question - where do people figure a WJ new hire position ranks vs the other opportunities that are available? Is this now just a ‘stepping stone’ job before leaving for another carrier with faster upgrades and a clearer future?

[pacman007]

WestJet is only for people what want to live in Calgary. It’s probably a good stable job for someone who wants to be out west. If you are from anywhere else in the country there are better or equal opportunities closer to home.

[Canadaflyer46]

WestJet is only for people what want to live in Calgary. It’s probably a good stable job for someone who wants to be out west. If you are from anywhere else in the country there are better or equal opportunities closer to home.

100%. There's no other reason to work for WJ other than for those wanting to work out of Calgary. With Flair opening up a YYC base next year I won't be surprised to see some people jumping ship. The meagre take-home pay, complete lack of career progression and exhaustingly hostile atmosphere will make Flair an attractive prospect for many FOs here.

[Aspiredtofly]

You’d be about $1050 a pay on the 15th and 30/31st.

Perdium is about $800-1000.

Upgrades in YYZ are at 9 years right now. Likely to trend higher as it seems all the growth is going to be out west.

Usually lots of overtime is always available

Really? $1050? It's $1150 at Encore.

$64.92x77.5x12x120%=$72,450

-$18,206 for federal, provincial, CPP and EI

-$3200 for STD,LTD and benefits (based on married with one kid)

-1200 in union dues

-24,150 in WSP

=$25,874/24

=$1078

Encore I believe is only 15% WSP which would result in a higher take home.

There’s a $7312 bonus on May 31st that will be prorated in your first year and you can obviously can reduce your benefits and income tax through different selections and tax reductions.

Is it possible to remove the WSP plan over there and is this the first year pay at WJ. What is the actual home take permonth if we remove the WSP plan. From my view I think it would be around $4-5.5k per month including perdiems

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

[quote="Fresh Prince of King Air" post_id=<a href="tel:1214312">1214312</a> time=<a href="tel:1663361127">1663361127</a> user_id=4455]
[quote=goingmissed post_id=<a href="tel:1214308">1214308</a> time=<a href="tel:1663360137">1663360137</a> user_id=84158]
[quote="Fresh Prince of King Air" post_id=<a href="tel:1214305">1214305</a> time=<a href="tel:1663359257">1663359257</a> user_id=4455]


You’d be about $1050 a pay on the 15th and 30/31st.

Perdium is about $800-1000.

Upgrades in YYZ are at 9 years right now. Likely to trend higher as it seems all the growth is going to be out west.

Usually lots of overtime is always available

Really? $1050? It's $1150 at Encore.
[/quote]

$64.92x77.5x12x120%=$72,450

-$18,206 for federal, provincial, CPP and EI

-$3200 for STD,LTD and benefits (based on married with one kid)

-1200 in union dues

-24,150 in WSP

=$25,874/24

=$1078

Encore I believe is only 15% WSP which would result in a higher take home.

There’s a $7312 bonus on May 31st that will be prorated in your first year and you can obviously can reduce your benefits and income tax through different selections and tax reductions.
[/quote]
Is it possible to remove the WSP plan over there and is this the first year pay at WJ. What is the actual home take permonth if we remove the WSP plan. From my view I think it would be around $4-5.5k per month including perdiems
[/quote]

First year pay. The scales are on page one of this thread.

WSP is optional

Subtract the 20% WSP and reduce the income tax.

$1738 per pay take home plus $800-1000 in perdium.

[Fresh Prince of King Air]

The $800-1000 is also assuming a full block.

I don’t know the reserve LOA well enough to comment either than it is based on seniority and there is no way for senior pilots to bid reserve if they prefer.

[daedalusx]

That still isn't a livable wage for someone with a mortgage in YYC but it's especially ridiculous for YYZ based pilots. There shouldn't be a single 737 pilot in Canada based out of YVR, YYC, YYZ or YUL making below 100k on their T4 on their 2nd year and no, per diems don't count. Stop including per diems on your salary/take home pay because now you have bottom feeders like Jazz posting their "per diem" as part of the pilot compensation, it's utterly disgusting. And guess what, you can't pay your mortgage, rent, or taxes with your benefits either.

Are you aware how much your local plumber, real estate agent or electrician makes ?

[RockSalty]

How long is it before you can touch your WSP money? A bit over 2k/mo takehome is rough, but throwing away 20% extra "free" money would be foolish... How do people make it through the first couple of years? I'd be on the struggle bus with those kinds of paycheques and I don't even live in a big city like yyz or yyc.

[fish4life]

That still isn't a livable wage for someone with a mortgage in YYC but it's especially ridiculous for YYZ based pilots. There shouldn't be a single 737 pilot in Canada based out of YVR, YYC, YYZ or YUL making below 100k on their T4 on their 2nd year and no, per diems don't count. Stop including per diems on your salary/take home pay because now you have bottom feeders like Jazz posting their "per diem" as part of the pilot compensation, it's utterly disgusting. And guess what, you can't pay your mortgage, rent, or taxes with your benefits either.

Are you aware how much your local plumber, real estate agent or electrician makes ?

I don’t know if any plumbers or electricians that aren’t running jobs/ have their own business that make 100k with just their wage and no OT. Real estate agents have been grossly inflated for a while and I’m happy their wages are going to collapse with this housing market.
Do any airlines T4 more than 100k year 2 in canada as a base?

[fish4life]

How long is it before you can touch your WSP money? A bit over 2k/mo takehome is rough... I'd be on the struggle bus with those kinds of paycheques and I don't even live in a big city like yyz or yyc.

Used to be a year but not sure what the new plan is since they have been sold

[Aspiredtofly]

So an average of 2k/month! After all that struggle and pain you end up with this. How are you guys managing to live even near yyz. I want to know if it's possible to pay your mortgage and manage a family of 3 all together

[pacman007]

So to increase your take home pay you have to take a 20% pay cut? Is that correct? Or do you just get to opt out and the company matches the 20%?

[Canadaflyer46]

So to increase your take home pay you have to take a 20% pay cut? Is that correct? Or do you just get to opt out and the company matches the 20%?

If only. When you opt out the company pulls their contribution. Such is the dilemma. You have to take a 20% pay cut to increase your take home pay like you say. If you do the full 20% you get taxed on it there and then too.

[pacman007]

Mind blown!
So to get a livable wage in yyz or yvr you either take a 20% pay cut to pay bills or don’t pay bills at all with the 2000 a month paycheck. I hate to say it but flair and lynx pay more and you don’t have to sacrifice 20% of your salary to live.
Ingenious scam by the company!

[Aviator12]

It’s not as bad as everyone says…base pay is 60k. Fo bonus is 7300 every May 31. Put away 12k in savings (20%) and you get 12k in return. Can be cash, tfsa or rrsp. Have access to it after a year. Total compensation is just shy of 80k/yr. Don’t think flair or lynx pay that.

[JBI]

Mind blown!
So to get a livable wage in yyz or yvr you either take a 20% pay cut to pay bills or don’t pay bills at all with the 2000 a month paycheck. I hate to say it but flair and lynx pay more and you don’t have to sacrifice 20% of your salary to live.
Ingenious scam by the company!

Notwithstanding that first year 737 FO wages are too low at WJ (and arguably at AC, Flair & Lynx), let's talk about how the WSP, very generally, works.

While it USED to be a share matching program, when the company was bought by Onex that was no longer possible. The current scheme is based on an arbitrated award that somewhat takes the old program into consideration while trying to fit to the reality that you can no longer actually buy shares in WestJet. I won't comment on whether the new program is 'as good' as the old program.

Pilots at WJ can opt to contribute UP to 20% of their salary into a number of different savings options: RRSP, TFSA, unsecured "WestJet Savings Plan" (essentially a loan to the company with set return rates) with the potential to select one, two or all three options. This is Optional and no one is required to contribute.

If someone decides to contribute the full 20%, it gets deducted off their paycheque. If they select the RRSP or TFSA option, the pilot's contribution goes directly into the type of savings account that they select (though I think it's quarterly and not monthly, I can't recall). There is a period where they are not able to withdraw it, but their contribution is always 'their' contribution regardless of what happens and you can see the amounts like any savings account you have. So while it doesn't get deposited into your chequing account, it does go into "your" account. For the RRSP / TFSA, twice a year, approximately a year after you've contributed, the Company will deposit their match into your savings account.

Now, when they do this, like most employer savings matching programs, this counts as a taxable benefit (i.e. income), so Pilots do have to pay tax on this amount as well. This isn't an employer's fault, that's the tax code. So unfortunately, the reality is that when you first start the program, at certain points in the year when you don't initially have access to your funds or the match, you're "taking home" 80% of your salary, but getting deducted tax on 120% of your salary. It should also be noted that if you contribute to a valid RRSP, a certain amount that you contribute to an RRSP is tax deductible, so you can maximize your Income Tax Return. But yes, your take home pay that you can access, when you first start at WJ and IF you participate in the optional program can be quite low.

Now that it's no longer a share matching program there are some very valid arguments that there shouldn't be an employee contribution portion. I'm not disagreeing with that at all. However, requiring an employee contribution is pretty standard for such savings plans for the vast majority of North American employers. And 20% is almost unheard of. My wife gets like 6% max. My financial planner was somewhat shocked that there was a company out there that matched 20%, most are 10% or lower. You are not 'sacrificing' 20% of your pay, you are simply moving it directly to a savings account. Prior to coming to WJ that's what I basically set up with my financial planner. My pay cheques were deposited on the 15th and 30th, and on the 16th and 1st, approximately 10% of my net pay was auto withdrawn and deposited into an investment account. Easy come, easy go. Best way to set up savings both for a rainy day and for retirement is to move your savings before you can touch it, so you don't miss it. I didn't "sacrifice" that money, I put it aside for savings. Aside from some market fluctuations, I still have all that money in savings/investments.

The other thing is that (perhaps a little less now that interest rates are going up), the 20% (or even 10%/15% at Swoop/Encore) still makes financial sense to do even if your take home pay is too low to pay all your bills. Getting a line of credit with an interest rate lower than 10% to cover the approximately 20% decrease in take home pay would still have you coming out ahead for total income than opting out of the match. Made sense before when the interest rates were really low, but less so now.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that the plans shouldn't be improved nor am I suggesting that current pay rates are sufficient and competitive. However, focusing ONLY on the decrease in take home pay on your pay cheque and not looking at your total income (including your savings) is not a prudent way to manage your expenses nor make decisions on which jobs to take.

[Greasy Greaser]

Yea....Just like everything, especially telegram for those on it; DO NOT listen to most of avCanada. (or telegram)

JBI and a few others nailed it, take home pay isn't great the first year but after...if you're half smart with money, you make decent money the first couple of years amount amount at WJ IF you take advantage of the 20%.

Fixing the WSP is one of the top priority's imo, and that is mainly just fixing the contribution by company timeline, it is now twice a year if TFSA or RRSP which should be per paycheck or monthly. (Those wanting no pilot contribution will learn most of Canada or USA do not have 20% lol)

The take home pay isn't good, at all; at least for the first few years. While I'm not defending what it is now, seems to be a lot of misinformation going on as usual and I don't know if it's non WJ people or those at WJ but don't contribute speaking.
You put in 20% if you do full contribution, that's instant 20% gone from paycheck on top of tax and overpaid benefits, its huge but that account you set up like JBI above said (TFSA, RRSP, NRSP, CASH) will grow like nothing else.

Not a financial advisor but obviously hold off the RRSP until a higher salary, do TFSA if you have room, NRSP if you can which is just manulife mutual funds which are okay at best, then CASH if nothing else. All are okay, just do one of them.

If you opt for NRSP or CASH account, do one year max, after the year is up, make sure you start withdrawing that money and do something with it. Your "take home" will significantly increase as you are now withdrawing money from the year previous and you should be doing something with that money withdrawal, IE: paying off debt/house, investing. Don't just leave it to accrue interest or anything; take it out and do something better. If you don't know, hire an accredited financier and have him/her do something for you.

Edit:
I'll Copy JBI's last paragraph...Things need to be improved, rates, WSP, rules, yada yada yada. I definitely stand on improving on all of our conditions.
But while people just look and spread on how low the take home pay is on the paycheck you get today, after the first year, it's significantly better, by a lot if you do practically anything but RRSP which should be year 6 plus imo on the FO side, as you should be withdrawing that money that you're putting away being matched by company.

[ZBBYLW]

Just curious. Everyone says take home pay is garbage for the first few years. But I don't understand your pay very well.

Without a pension obviously it's important to take advantage of the WSP so include that.

At AC as a 11 year skipper on the 320 (very similar to our 737 pay) I take home about 10k a month, with 10% share purchase done automatically, that's with no OT and about 75 hours of credit. How does that compare?

[Canadaflyer46]

Just curious. Everyone says take home pay is garbage for the first few years. But I don't understand your pay very well.

Without a pension obviously it's important to take advantage of the WSP so include that.

At AC as a 11 year skipper on the 320 (very similar to our 737 pay) I take home about 10k a month, with 10% share purchase done automatically, that's with no OT and about 75 hours of credit. How does that compare?

Edited to delete screenshot of pay stub as it’s likely breaking some WJ rules even fully redacted. Take home was $1369 on an 11k taxable gross pay cheque though. GoingMissed saw it